Live data from Hacker News

New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

theautopian.com

221–230 of 714 posts

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#221

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

Let's reward rich people who can afford self-driving electric cars that tend to crash into things when they aren't paying attention by giving them their own highway lane.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#222

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

It’s obvious at this point that the US gov doesn’t want to invest there, and it’s too hard for the private sector to go and build train routes through land.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#223
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, when you're driving, you sometimes only see the car in front of you. You might see it slowing down first, and you start slowing down, or continue because there is enough distance anyway. Then the car in front of you stops abruptly or crashes. Now you panic and brake hard. Maybe you still crash into the car in front. Even if you stop before crashing, this hard braking causes the car behind you to crash into…

>TL;DR - Sometimes the 3 second following distance is just not enough even if someone is paying attention because they can only see the car in front of them. Yep... the usual advice locally is 5 to 7 seconds gap for freeways and similar, before accounting for weather and other conditions. Of course, that assumes you can leave a gap without some bastard deciding to sneak in and occupy it.

On this bridge you're always going to have someone occupying open space, but you can still maintain 5 seconds of visible leading distance. Alas, a lot of drivers on this stretch of freeway are insane.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#224

If autopilot starts braking even slightly and it shouldn't, I immediately take control. For this to happen, the driver clearly was not prepared to take control in any way. It's like driving on cruise control with your legs crossed. The automated cruise control and lane-keep on my previous car, an Audi, would occasionally do crazy things too. The hyper-focus on this being Tesla's fault continues to baffle.

Because the Audi doesn't charge users $10,000-20,000USD for "Full Self Driving," that's why we talk about it so much! If you throw it in as a safety feature in your deluxe package, and describe it as such, we aren't having this conversation. On the other hand, I strongly suspect that if they didn't do that, TSLA never gets to worth more than all other car companies in the entire world combined in market cap terms, and Elon Musk is never able to afford to buy TWTR, so one can see why he would do it.

What is the reason I should pay all of this extra money and still have to maintain full focus and attention on the road around me at all times? What is the market for it unless it's for me to be able to zone out more while driving?

Umpty-years ago I worked on robot tanks for the US Army, and we had a devil of a time answering this question. If the driver still has to be fully monitoring a single vehicle at all times, why isn't s/he driving it directly? What benefit does this not-quite real self-driving provide? Our soldiers told us that it mostly got in their way, because they wanted it go over here and the computer wanted it to go over there, and so they felt like they were fighting the computer more than anything else. It is possible that someone will come up with a better adjudication than we did, but it really made me question whether any level between 2 and 5 is actually useful to anyone.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#225

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

Reminds me of how I used to build railways everywhere instead of roads in Sim City. But surely that wouldn't work out in real life?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I brake check someone on the highway, causing an accident, and it’s discovered that that’s what happened, I’d be pretty shocked* if the trailing driver was found responsible. That video looks like a combined lane change and brake check on the part of the Tesla. * and disappointed

Why would you be shocked and disappointed? It is the obligation of the driver trailing you to maintain enough distance to be able to stop safely if the car in front of them has to brake hard for whatever reason. The fact that your hard braking wasn't actually necessary may mean that you're also responsible, but it doesn't absolve the other driver.

As much as I agree with you, it seems that concepts like 'brake check' and other road rage behaviours make this matter a lot more complicated than common sense dictates.

Simply, drivers don't use their common sense, and just their normal daily driving routine is already endangering to people around.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#227

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

Let's reward rich people who can afford self-driving electric cars that tend to crash into things when they aren't paying attention by giving them their own highway lane.

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of pragmatism, the person intentionally putting other drivers at unnecessary risk by being an asshole should bear the responsibility for the outcomes of that intentional and unnecessary risk they elected to subject roadway users to.

They should, and I said as much. It does not absolve the other person from responsibility for not following the required safety protocol. The car in front of them might have had to brake for a perfectly legitimate reason. I mean, suppose that the other driver was driving while drunk. They might have arrived to their destination safely without the asshole in front, but that's not an excuse against a DUI ticket.

How do you maintain safe distance from those in adjacent lanes? Especially if they may come from behind you, suddenly change lanes in front, then break hard?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#229

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

Given how few SDVs there are and how expensive they are, this would basically be a Rich People Lane, and further incentivize the most wasteful, climate-impacting method of travel.

Lanes for busses and vans? Yes. SDVs? Maybe in several decades, and they should still only be for HOVs only.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#230
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Here’s a video of FSD in use on a freeway. There are hundreds of these. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E-RHYbvIZYo

Wrong. You can plainly see in the video (and the hundreds of others) that as soon as the car enters the freeway it switches to Autopilot automatically. The easiest way to tell is the red lines in the FSD visualization disappear when it switches to Autopilot. The transition is completely smooth and the driver doesn't have to know or care at all, so it's not surprising that they were mistaken. But it's relevant here be…

If drivers are unlikely to notice the transition and the capabilities are significantly different that seems problematic.
Post reply on HN