Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

thetechdeviant.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 336 posts

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#221

Post by common-know »

bitwize wrote: post #180
jknoepfler wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an extremely reductive claim. Can you really not think of more mundane reasons someone might find themselves moderating reddit? It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... Do you really think the moderators of ELI5 or PeopleFuckingDying or some obscure porn reddit or whatever are primarily concerned with "ideology"? I used to help moderate a poker forum. I was a professiona…

It's common knowledge now that abstaining from politics is taking the side of the oppressor. This has the effect of giving many subreddits and other topical communities a political orientation even if politics is nominally offtopic. To give an example, it is increasingly hard to find an online knitting community that tolerates conservative viewpoints; most have followed the lead of Ravelry.

No, it's not "common knowledge" that abstaining from politics is siding with the oppressor.

That's an unfalsifiable ideological assertion that has been well-socialized, but that doesn't make it fact and lots of people disagree with it, because it's an opinion, and it's one that presupposes a Foucaultian worldview of human dynamics as being able to be distilled down to pure power struggles.

It's absurd to see that bandied about as truth just because it's "common knowledge." I bet in Communist China it was "common knowledge" right before the famine that killing the sparrows would bolster the harvest, too.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#222

Post by floor2 »

jknoepfler wrote: post #211
bitwize wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common knowledge now that abstaining from politics is taking the side of the oppressor. This has the effect of giving many subreddits and other topical communities a political orientation even if politics is nominally offtopic. To give an example, it is increasingly hard to find an online knitting community that tolerates conservative viewpoints; most have followed the lead of Ravelry.

So the implication you're drawing from this... which was the topic at hand... is that all knitting forum moderators are motivated exclusively be the desire to espouse an ideology?

Please don't troll or make bad-faith arguments on HN. This post contains two instances of moving the goalposts and using extreme language for strawman attacks.

People are pointing out that moderation is often biased and that the power of controlling the narrative and topics & viewpoints that are allowed is a motivator for many moderators. Your strawman argument that "all moderators" being "exclusively" motivated is just rhetoric to try to win against a claim no one is making.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#224

Post by Manuel_D »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #196
Manuel_D wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people need to consent for other artists to use their work as references when painting? That seems pretty analogous to training an AI on a corpus of artwork.

It's generally not gone over well when it's discovered that an artist has been copying composition, poses, etc from pre-existing work of the same type. Manga and comic artists for example have had their careers derailed over it. Stylistic mimicry is more murky, partially because humans aren't as good at cloning styles — inevitably the clone will take on some influence from the one doing the copying, which isn't true…

Copying entire compositions is different from references. I'm case you're unfamiliar, artists usually have a few images off to the side of their workpiece to look at for inspiration and to reference colors and image elements.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#225

Post by danogentili »

visarga wrote: post #220
danogentili wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can very well get to define what art means to me. Process is actually very easy to infer if the art is made by a human, since the emotions that are being conveyed by the humans behind the screen are displayed directly on screen. I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. An AI ca…

> I don't deny that I might get moved by a piece of AI art, but even so, my first thought goes to what human art was used to generated this specific piece that inspired this emotion. Yes, exactly, behind AI art there are countless human artists and their experiences. You should not dismiss AI so easily. What it offers you is a new way to see your favourite artists, to interact with their works, to continue dreaming t…

Sure, it's a fun toy to play with, I don't deny it.

Like a kaleidoscope, it can be fun to recognize familiar patterns and beautiful colors, but it's nothing more than that: a toy.

What I look for in art is intent and human passion; for me, the excitement of suddenly getting a nice number out of a PRNG or a cool story out of GPT is a very different from experiencing a story passionately crafted by a human.

When I read an amazing story like the Iron Widow, I feel respect towards the skills of the author, excitement for her future plans for the sequel; I follow the author on twitter and maybe interact a bit, because I appreciate what that human made me feel.

I can't do the same for a GPT story, because even if it was generated from multiple human stories, there is no actual human intent behind it; no one to thank, and no one to blame in case of messups: it feels like an empty shell.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#226

Post by jknoepfler »

bitwize wrote: post #216
jknoepfler wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the implication you're drawing from this... which was the topic at hand... is that all knitting forum moderators are motivated exclusively be the desire to espouse an ideology?

No, but preventing the Nazi camel from getting its nose in the tent is now an important motivator for moderators.

Sure, yeah. I doubt most knitting forum moderators wake up thinking "gosh I'd better get to that knitting forum to prevent the Nazi camel from getting its nose into the knitting tent," but I don't know any knitting forum moderators.

The comment I was replying to - "all individuals of class X are motivated exclusively by vicious desire Y" - isn't a truth-seeking comment, and I think we can do better.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#228

Post by Manuel_D »

flumpcakes wrote: post #171
Manuel_D wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people need to consent for other artists to use their work as references when painting? That seems pretty analogous to training an AI on a corpus of artwork.

Why do we make analogies to people? Machines have no rights of expression or inherent freedoms. There is no "learning", we're not "teaching" the machine anything. It boils down to heuristics and statistics. Imagine we're in the 1930s with no computers: If I were to study every every Agatha Christie book and write my own based on statistical likelihoods of words, characters, plot elements etc. I would be seen as a cop…

If you want to get pendantic, the human brain ultimately functions off heuristics and inputs. Again, references are not copied, they are used to inspire and guide new artwork. Even artists producing totally original artwork use references.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#229

Post by thatguy0900 »

jknoepfler wrote: post #215
mring33621 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"keep discussions constructive and topical." is subjective

Of course it is. That does not entail that forums moderators (myself included) are exclusively motivated by a desire to push an ideology, which was the topic at hand. Nor does "subjective" entail "ideological" unless you're going to torture the term ideology being having a useful meaning.

We're not talking about forum moderators, really, but power moderators. Someone who mods a random topic they like is probably decent at it and not trying to push something. Someone whos gotten themselves in a position to mod 10+ of the largest subreddits on reddit is probably not doing very much actual modding and is very much trying to push something.
Post reply on HN