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Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

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221–230 of 332 posts

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People assume it's easier for more senior people to get offers, but it's actually the opposite. The more senior you get, the longer it can take to get a new job. You are much more expensive, so companies are extra cautious hiring you. And it's just common sense that there is an order of magnitude fewer managers than there are individual contributors. And many (most?) companies have a bias to promoting internally.

Also so much of management is personal. Upper management doesn’t have visibility into your day to day and needs to trust you’ll deliver by the deadlines they set for their bosses/customers. It’s hard to trust someone you don’t already know.

Something I try to instill in juniors is to make and keep relationships up. Depending on your industry, it’s a very small world.

I recall interviewing someone who had just a terrible technical interview, but honestly seemed like a good fit. In the interview it came out he had worked for and with two people who I knew fairly well (and respected and trusted.) Two phone calls later, and based on their experiences with him, he was on to the next round.

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#222
post #80

Let me show you the backdoor: Find a company whose open source projects you are interested in. Dive in and and start fixing things. Then if you really like it after a couple weeks start nudging around for a job. If you do good work they'll just give it to you, no bullshit funnel required. I like this method because you aren't just doing l33t coding exercises to work on some sight unseen codebase that makes you suicid…

This 1 weird trick of doing free work and hoping they 1) have headcount 2) pay attention / see value in your free work. > … you are test driving each other. Unless you think the way they run their open source projects is the way their entire company works, you’re really not.

Yes, this is all a good disclaimer. YMMV like with everything else.

There's no guarantees anywhere in this strategy. But there's nice correlations

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very impressive and difficult to maintain in London. Rent for a "double" room - meaning a room in a flat/apartment or house that fits a US full or European double bed is like 900/month right now. Spending only 1200/month is very difficult to achieve. I have no idea how this is feasible. To add to rent, local stores are usually more expensive than the supermarkets. Maybe you ought to make a masterclass on this…

Well my rent is only £600/month which helps a lot. It's in a less popular neighbourhood, but it's still in Zone 2 with good transport links and it's very nice.

Do you live alone or with other people and you split the rent? How much do you pay for council tax and bills? 600 is very cheap in London.

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#224

Let me show you the backdoor: Find a company whose open source projects you are interested in. Dive in and and start fixing things. Then if you really like it after a couple weeks start nudging around for a job. If you do good work they'll just give it to you, no bullshit funnel required. I like this method because you aren't just doing l33t coding exercises to work on some sight unseen codebase that makes you suicid…

Curious if you have done this yourself

Yep. More than once.

I got frustrated by interviews where I told them I've been doing this for over 25 years and they're like "ok how do you show the list of files in this directory at the bash prompt"

I've had the "what the hell job are you hiring for?" response in my head many times

I've got no interest groveling my way up some kind of hierarchy to eventually get to a position I thought I was coming in to do in the first place.

This has turned out to be a perfectly acceptable shortcut.

You could say it's more like petitioning for a job as opposed to applying for one

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freelancer here; this time of year there is always a slowdown. Holiday vacation absences make scheduling all the right people to interview harder. I set aside extra the rest of the year to smooth over the drop off in responses late-Oct/Jan period. By February I usually get swarmed with asks to tackle projects and can pick ones that are actually interesting. Then it happens again in summer as people with enough money…

I can second this, after doing this many years the recruiters start to swarm your phone and inbox starting in January.

I can third this. Usually companies are busy making plans for the new year. Then somewhere near February is where they start looking for the people who can make it happen.

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#226
post #213
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have said, unemployment in the US is still pretty low. But that may not mean for the near future that plum tech jobs are growing on trees. Lots of openings at many companies/govt orgs (including military) for roles with tech skills but probably not at comp many have come to expect. See also 2000/2001+ era.

Do you think $120k is a reasonable expectation for a SWE with 2 YOE in this market? That's what I am shooting for, and still think is reasonable to expect, but on the otherhand if layoffs continue, I guess I may be forced to reconsider...

I'm pretty specialized and quite senior in a mostly tech-adjacent role so don't have a lot of personal experience. (And don't have the sort of comp you see in the big-name tech companies.) But that's probably a pretty high expectation for a junior-level position in general outside of SV names.

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but referring to companies by their stock tickers in casual conversation does not impress anyone.

Pretty sure it wasn't to impress anyone, but to save keystrokes. In both cases the stock ticker is shorter than the company name, and everyone instantly knows what you're talking about.

I actually had to google it because I thought it had something to do with the NFL (National Football League).

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#228
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've not been laid off either. I'm currently taking a break from jobs. I'm starting to think that it's time to go back to full-time employment. But I'm looking at the job market and think it might be better to give it 4-6 months. Let all the companies that are going to do layoffs have their layoffs and then join a company still looking for new devs in a few months.

>But I'm looking at the job market and think it might be better to give it 4-6 months. I'm fascinated by this. How does one do this? Two options I can think of are being independently wealthy and being dependent on another. Are there other ways to accomplish being so comfortable with, "eh, gonna be unemployed another 4-6 months and see what happens"?

I've taken a couple breaks between jobs; about 9 months each time. The key is to save money while you are working so that you have a buffer. Obviously, it can be tough to save money. I did it by never getting comfortable with how much money I made; I lived like I made a lot less. (Basically, stock was half my compensation, but even though I auto-sold it whenever it vested, I mentally valued it at $0, so that was free savings. I did all my planning and forecasting around base pay. That is less possible if you have a family to support, but it is also very low risk. Everything financial is a matter of how much risk you're comfortable with. If you take on more risk for expenses, you have less of a buffer for "I don't feel like working" or layoffs.)

A lot of your money is going to be for housing, and there are a lot of "conventions" that I think you should be careful with. Housing companies will tell you to spend 30% or more of your gross income on housing. You can do that if you want, but you'll have more savings if you aim for 10-15%. It's quite possible; I've lived in a nice neighborhood in NYC for 10 years and pay about 16% of my gross income on rent. (Rent stabilization is a powerful force, though, and you kind of had to be here 10 years ago to be paying 10 years ago's rents.)

Similar stabilizing forces apply if you have a mortgage as well. If you get a 30 year fixed, your monthly payment isn't going to go up over 30 years, but the value of that money is going to decrease, so it will be less of a burden over time because your income is likely to be adjusted to inflation over time. My advice to myself from 10 years ago would have been to buy and not rent; the dollar becomes worth less and less over time, but the roof over your head remains as useful as ever. If you have savings, the dollar decreasing in purchasing power just wipes out your savings. If you have debt, then the amount of time it takes to work off your debt decreases instead. Rent stabilization does give a lot of this advantage to renters, but it's rare throughout the US, NYC is kind of an anomaly.

Regardless, always be working on building that buffer. You want to be able to pay for housing for 1-2 years without working; once you have that buffer, then you can decide to use it to take time off, or you can keep it stashed away for "quirky billionaire buys my company and fires everyone". (Such things do apparently happen.) The lower your monthly expenses are, the easier that is, so keep your expenses low. The expense that I think is easiest to dig into is food; it can easily be $25-$30 to order a cheeseburger and fries for delivery (at least in NYC), but you will be hard-pressed to spend $30 on ingredients to make a single meal. If you have any free time whatsoever, there is a lot of savings at hand. If you have no free time, then hopefully you're being compensated for that.

I suppose the elephant in the room is the disparity in pay between non-FAANG and FAANG (or whatever people call it these days; Facebook, Amazon, and Netflix seem to be facing hard times, Google definitely seems interested in reducing compensation across the board, Apple's still doing pretty well), and things like that. There are no doubt great software engineers making $70k a year doing the same work that Google is paying people $400k a year to do. Try and get that job, and everything will be a lot easier for you. HN hates this, but if leetcode is what's standing between you and 4x the pay, you should probably just practice the leetcode. Your safety net and quality of life will increase dramatically, even if you move to a high-cost-of-living area. I definitely did that when I was applying to Google 10 years ago, and it was probably the best investment I ever made. $50 worth of books and a few evenings trying the exercises, and I got a 3x pay increase and a free move to NYC. Would recommend considering it.

(BTW, it seems like every company in existence has min/maxed the cost of living thing; so you are unlikely to get ahead by moving to a low cost-of-living area. Your employer will just pay you less and keep the savings for themselves. But if you start cooking food instead of ordering it, they'll never know, so that's free money for your savings and investments ;)

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#229
post #79

Let me show you the backdoor: Find a company whose open source projects you are interested in. Dive in and and start fixing things. Then if you really like it after a couple weeks start nudging around for a job. If you do good work they'll just give it to you, no bullshit funnel required. I like this method because you aren't just doing l33t coding exercises to work on some sight unseen codebase that makes you suicid…

This sounds like you're suggesting people work for free for the hope of potentially being hired by an employer. I think that is pretty pathetic.

Incorrect.

You are making sure your passions align with your work.

If you can find motivation beyond a paycheck and do it then you're more confident you'll enjoy it for the long haul.

Jobs are easy. Satisfaction is the hard thing.

Strictly speaking yes this is uncompensated labor but if that's all you see, let me help a bit.

What if the target is NASA, Wikimedia foundation, maybe some software for Doctors without borders? They all have salaried positions and volunteering is probably a solid way to know if it's a good fit

Re: Ask HN: How's the job hunt going? (For those laid off)

#230
post #35

I know this may not be the correct thread for this, and hope it doesn't come across as not being empathetic: I'm paying $100/hr (negotiable) for skills in { Rust/Actix webdev, Unreal Engine plugin development, computer vision, audio processing, signal processing, ML }. These roles will convert to salary/equity later on, once the project outgrows my ability to self-fund. We're building a cloud-based AI film and music…

May I ask why you use rust/actix for web dev?

We do real time signal processing, 3D graphics, and other systems-y stuff, so we just decided to use Rust up and down the stack. It works well for us.

Actix/sqlx isn't Rails, but it's 90% of the way there. The rich type system is liberating, and form validation is far easier with Actix/serde than rspec.

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