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Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

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221–230 of 291 posts

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#221
While I think this is great, and am just like (nearly) everyone else in our (nearly) universal disgust with the big content-owning conglomerates, I wonder about the part where he's justifying selling the video for $5, when through traditional channels it would have cost $20.

I feel like it's not uncommon to see stories on hn that basically say we should do the opposite with our products. That is, charge more, because the difference between increased revenue vs. customers lost will still result in a net gain.

Now, obviously Louis CK is a pretty widely-known comedian who already probably has a lot of money, so I don't think he conducted this experiment as a way of becoming that much wealthier, and I applaud him for not taking advantage of his fans. If he had sold it for $20 and billed it as "cutting out the middle man" I'd wager his total revenue probably would have been higher, but he chose to cut his fans a better (for them) deal.

That said, for lesser-known folks with smaller audiences who aren't already wealthy enough to cut their fans some slack, I'd imagine they'd do better charging $20 rather than $5.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#222

"If anybody stole it, it wasn't many of you." Searching for "louis ck beacon" on The Pirate Bay gives 7 hits, with a total of 886 seeders, 152 leechers. http://thepiratebay.org/search/louis%20ck%20beacon/0/99/0

Unfortunately there isn't a reliable way to know how many people have pirated it.

It really doesn't matter how many people pirated it, as long as he makes enough money for it to be worth it to him to have made it in the first place. If it was 10 people but 40,000 bought it or a million pirates and 40,000 consumers, it's all the same to him.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#223

While I think this is great, and am just like (nearly) everyone else in our (nearly) universal disgust with the big content-owning conglomerates, I wonder about the part where he's justifying selling the video for $5, when through traditional channels it would have cost $20. I feel like it's not uncommon to see stories on hn that basically say we should do the opposite with our products. That is, charge more, because…

I think the arguments you bring up are usually mentioned in the context of subscriptions and salaries. LCK's product is a one-time purchase, so the psychological limit sounds like just about $5, which is a price so low that you don't have to debate with yourself whether you want to buy it or not.

Use Steam videogame and iOS game prices as a corollary instead.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#224
post #23

Louis C.K. deserves all credit for showing that you don't need a label, that non-DRM distribution's benefits outweigh its costs, etc. Yet to me the real lesson is about the remarkable PR he's built for this story around being the "purple cow" and his ability to market to his audience (holding a AMA on Reddit even).

Using Louis C.K. as a guiding light for the rest of us is a little like hearing that indie game developers can make big bank, because Notch did. Louis C.K. is the biggest comedian now, and is generally popular with appearances on all the late-night talk shows, NPR, reddit, etc. We have no idea about what parameters had the biggest influence. Novelty value is probably one of those parameters as well.

We don't know how much Louis would have made, had he published the normal way, but we do know that the customers benefited by it.

We need more people to do this to draw any significant conclusions from it.

It is a great story that someone as popular as LCK chose to do this partly as a service to his fans, but I don't know how much there is to be learnt from the perspective of self-publishing right now.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#225
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the price aspect: at $5 it's hardly even worth it to torrent it when I can have a zero hassle download experience.

You would think that, but in an interview I heard, he said it's already been torrented. I would be interested to see if the increase in torrents over time has a correlation with a decrease in sales. This also might depend on who the artists is. Some demos aren't that tech savvy.

I bought it and then downloaded it with torrent because it went faster that way. I think the server were overly busy, so maybe the correlation you speak of is negative.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#226

I'm glad it's worked out for him, and unless I'm misunderstanding, it seems he's double-counting his production costs in working out his (pre-tax) profit, so he may have done even better than that: "the production of the video cost around $170,000. (This was largely paid for by the tickets bought by the audiences at both shows)" "12 hours [after launching] we had over 50,000 purchases and had earned $250,000, breakin…

I think your math here using different assumptions than he would.

"This was largely paid for by the tickets bought by the audiences at both shows."

Otherwise he would have been able to simply pocket 170,000 dollars worth of tickets, as if he had done a regular show.

So to him, that's a net loss of 170k, you don't get to add it back in at the beginning.

So, 550 - 170 - 30 = 350k

You've also got to assume that his time is worth something, he could probably be working on something else instead of arranging his own marketing blitz... Also have to assume he pays for his own travel expenses etc.

I can see that being an expensive proposition if he, for example, has to fly cross country, miss out on potential shows, etc. If he misses out on 2 shows, that's a couple hundred thousand right there (apparently).

The point being, if he had done this through a media conglomerate, he probably could have had time for other stuff that would have made him money.

Bandwidth costs money too. > 100,000 GB isn't particularly cheap.

"I only heard of Louis C.K. from watching one of his stand-up shows on TV on an airline, so even if he didn't get payed directly, there's still publicity value in them."

Same, except it was YouTube. There's even publicity value for him in piracy. If he can afford to sell this thing for $5 and make a profit, he only needs something like 1/15th of people to become fans, buy a ticket and see him live.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#227
Just throwing this out there, but if I can buy a Louis C.K. comedy special for $5 each year, I'm going to buy a Louis C.K. comedy special for $5 each year.

It's probably a self sustaining model. I only just heard about it now, and bought it just now. I don't think he's tapped 100% of his potential market in the 4 days it has been available.

I look forward to the next batch of statistics released. Hopefully in ~4 months?

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current model does not work for less popular artists, so I have trouble seeing the downside.

I'm anything but an apologist for the current model. But if it disappears, we haven't necessarily made life any better for lesser-known artists. So if we are to remove one of the critical steps to success (i.e., the marketing and promotional spend of traditional labels, publishers, networks, and studios), we should hope that there's a viable replacement. Or we should try to build one. In our haste to cast out the old…

"In our haste to cast out the old guard, we tend to lose sight of the fact that the old guard still fills what appears to be a necessary purpose: the breaking-out of artists. I'm confident and hopeful that their crucial role in that purpose will, eventually, weaken or fade. But for now, it's still a strong reality."

To be totally but somewhat apologetically blunt - that is a steaming pile of BS. That is the exact party line repeated by every single rank and file music industry do-nothing to justify their phony-baloney jobs.

In my own personal experience, affiliation with a record label as a young and growing artist is almost certainly more likely to handicap your chances at success than it is to actually help it. The reason is that when the young artist buys into the party line that "you need the major label machinery to grow your career", the artist then hands over a large amount of control and trust to a supposed "experienced, connected industry professional" to do a job that 99 times out of 100 would be better off done by the artist themselves.

Not only that, but the young artist has no idea that the supposed "experienced, connected industry professional" has zero interest in or understanding of what it is that the artist actually has going for them, either artistically via their music or commercially via their fanbase. At that point all they know is that for some reason, things aren't working out as everybody had hoped it would with the new label. They find out later that they are essentially paying a 100% interest rate on their advance for the privilege of believing this in the first place.

I and all of my buddies in other bands live our lives in the long-tail environment and we play for larger crowds and make more money than probably 98% of the suckers that take the advice to place their bets on "the traditional industry model". And we own our souls outright. You've probably never heard of any of us, but we're okay with that.

THE ONLY WAY FORWARD is to once and for all crush the notion that the "traditional industry model" is anything other than a parasite that eats hopeful and talented artists and excretes auto-tuned plastic dolls.

Rant over for this round.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#229
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there are also people like Jonathan Coulton (the guy who sings "code monkey") who started with nothing and built a fan base. Also he did the ending song for both Portal games.

No doubt there are examples of people who built a fanbase online from nothing. But I'm sure it helps a lot if you happen to write songs that appeal to nerds and then get featured on slashdot as a sort of novelty act. I don't see that working as well if you write earnest alt-folk love songs instead of songs about Mountain Dew. Incidentally, there was a story about Coulton on NPR not long ago [1]. [1] http://www.npr.or…

The internet is not restricted to nerds anymore. Sure, your average musician isn't likely to get a mention on Slashdot, but there are about a zillion different forums/blogs/etc out there covering a zillion different topics, and if your music appeals to even a small subset of them you can get some pretty cheap advertising. And if your music is good, you can start to build off of that.

Re: Louis C.K. experiment results: over $500,000 in 4 days

#230
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's bunk. It boils down to saying, "sure, it worked for Louis CK and Radiohead, and Cory Doctorow and Humble Bundle. It worked for Trent Reznor, OK Go, and pretty much everyone funded by Kickstarter... But it could never work for you." This stuff doesn't because it's sprinkled with magic experiment dust. It works because the authors are doing good work, they're able to build a fan base, and they're able to make th…

The reason it works for those specific groups is because of their fan base. Do you think that if Britney Spears tomorrow launched a similar "DRM free pay what you want" sale that and the "viral" element (news articles about how edgy it is) didn't exist she would have the success that these people have? She would outsell all her other releases because "whoa DRM free this is incredible!"? I don't think so, her average…

People feel invested in the purchase when someone like Louis CK comes out and speaks directly to his fans. We all get to know what the deal is, and how it works. It's the same feeling you get when you support a Kickstarter project, even if (to be cynical) many Kickstarter projects are just a way to sell units directly from producer to consumer.
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