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Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

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Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#221
post #90

This sort of reaffirms my belief that UIDs are not sufficient for syncing mail. Emails should be hashed and synced by the hash which would solve other issues, like being able to redownload specific messages that may have got corrupted locally.

Can hashes not collide? Would that not cause problems?

You only need the lookup key to be very selective, then you can use cached metadata to pick from among conflicts.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#222

why would you rely on a 5 digit number for unique identification rather than something like a g/uuid?

IMAP UIDs aren't unique IDs per message, they are an incrementing number assigned to a message that's unique per mailbox ("folder"). Their incrementing nature is part of the standard, a random number would likely break mail clients. They should be stable between sessions but when you move a message back and forth between folders, the UID changes every time. There are events where the UIDs change, for example when a s…

BTW, "unique per-mailbox" utterly fails to be sufficient in a post-gmail labels-as-folders world. That's because folders are lame. But doing better than folders really makes you want a relational database for email.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#223
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’ve been using your mailbox (and deleting mail) for a while, have over 50K mails in it now, and see (what you think is) a UID of 51950 on the most recent email, the chances that it’s “U” are extremely low, meaning there’s a gap in understanding or in implementation.

Every time I see that, I’m floored by it. The fact that message IDs in IMAP change when you delete messages has got to be one of the worst design choices in any in-use protocol. I’m flabbergasted by it. The sooner everyone moves to jmap the better.

It's an artifact of IMAP having evolved in the presence of older mailstore technologies like mbox and maildir that couldn't easily accommodate long-term stable message IDs.

It's fine though, as long as the MUA developers understand this and don't expect UIDs to be more stable than they actually are.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#224
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't need a custom domain anymore and I find it trivial to change email addresses. I can use 1password to locate accounts, easily migrate, apply a tag, and work through the change over a few hours. I typically change email every 2-3 years and it serves as a good way to review security settings/change passwords. Modern email providers have mailbox porting tools, and they work fine. I use to like having a domain, bu…

> I use to like having a domain, but dunno, for a privacy nut, seems more secure to not use one. Care to explain which are those concerns about privacy that you may find when owning a custom email address? Thanks in advance.

I was being a bit pedantic but ... a domain registrar could be an attack vector, its not as anonymous as something like proton/tutanota, not beholden to ICANN, if you use an alias related to your domain it could be tied to you. If I give up the domain in the future, it could be used against me in a social engineering way.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#225
post #199
post #78

I didn't know what exactly is proton mail bridge. This is what I've found: > Proton Mail Bridge is a desktop application that runs in the background, encrypting and decrypting messages as they enter and leave your computer. It lets you add your Proton Mail account to your favorite email client via IMAP/SMTP by creating a local email server on your computer. Source: https://proton.me/mail/bridge

Protonmail doesn't support email clients with POP/IMAP like most hosting companies do. They only let you use their proprietary apps on mobile. Desktop users can log in to the website or use Bridge which is just a hacky way of creating a local Protonmail server that your email client thinks is a hosting provider. I could never get it set up on my machine so I just used the browser implementation. sigh.

They aren't offering IMAP as an email provider? What's up with that?

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#226

This is Bart, Proton CTO here. For clarity, the issue mentioned here only impacts Proton Mail Bridge, our desktop IMAP/SMTP gateway to Proton Mail encrypted email. The fact that Bridge and its client can become desynchronized sporadically for some users is a high priority issue we have been working on. Bridge is open source, and as a result relies upon open-source components, and the root cause is an architectural is…

What I don’t understand is why there’s no effort from Proton to expose the underlying protocol between Protonmail.com and the Bridge.

This protocol should be an open source effort, allowing mail clients to implement it and other provider to implement it on their own server.

This could clearly be a major move, making unencrypted IMAP a thing of the past, allowing direct competitors (tutanota? Mailfence?) to collaborate on the bridge and on the ecosystem and targeting directly the only competitor worth talking about : Gmail.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#227
post #225
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protonmail doesn't support email clients with POP/IMAP like most hosting companies do. They only let you use their proprietary apps on mobile. Desktop users can log in to the website or use Bridge which is just a hacky way of creating a local Protonmail server that your email client thinks is a hosting provider. I could never get it set up on my machine so I just used the browser implementation. sigh.

They aren't offering IMAP as an email provider? What's up with that?

I don't know, and it's why I moved off them. Additionally, the Bridge is only available for Windows/Linux/Mac, so if you want to use your own email client on mobile, I guess your only option is to VPN into your home network and expose a bridge instance there or something. No hard feelings, but I can't really recommend them as an email host if what you're looking for is... an email host.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens occasionally on the mobile app on iOS for me. I am slowly migrating everything away from my paid ProtonMail account, and I intend to just go back to using a megacorp email... despite absolutely loathing and detesting megacorps. At this point in life, email is simply too important. Notices from government agencies, my accountant, my lawyers, my various banks... I quit self hosting for these reasons (no matter…

I was hovering over the button to start moving from megacorp to Proton. Bleh. Which megacorp will you pick? Are there really no better options? Thx.

I moved from Protonmail to Migadu and am happy with them. They support standard protocols and otherwise get out of the way. They also seem to be paying the Sourcehut guys to make an open source webmail client for them, which is cool but I will probably never use.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#230
post #228

The majority of Protonmail accounts are used for dealing drugs on the darknet and similar things, nobody really cares much about bugs.

I would disagree. Sure protomail may be used by nefarious actors but there are also plenty of security minded people that use it too. A majority of those users are not doing anything nefarious at all. They simply don't want anyone snooping on their emails.
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