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Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

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Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#221

Post by ryan_lane »

diceduckmonk wrote: post #79
davidkuennen wrote: post #12

As someone being in Tokyo right now chatting with locals about this topic it's just not generally true or comparable to other cities. Sure there are parts of Tokyo that are cheaper, but Tokyo is gigantic. All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small.

> locals about this topic Are the locals foreigners or Japanese? The set of housing options are different between the two. There's an implicit price premium and threshold on the units with landlords receptive to foreigners. The cheaper accommodations are not going to be available especially if tenant isn't fluent in the language. > All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small…

> Are the locals foreigners or Japanese? The set of housing options are different between the two. There's an implicit price premium and threshold on the units with landlords receptive to foreigners.

Yes, you need to bring someone who is fluent to sign papers, but if you have residence with a visa that's greater than 2 years, there's no real difference. Most foreigners have their company, or their school do the actual paperwork, as well.

If your visa is less than two (and in some cases three) years, then yeah, you're going to need a gaijin apartment, and they're a lot more expensive.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#222

Post by ryan_lane »

davidkuennen wrote: post #12

As someone being in Tokyo right now chatting with locals about this topic it's just not generally true or comparable to other cities. Sure there are parts of Tokyo that are cheaper, but Tokyo is gigantic. All the places that "matter" with reasonably fast commute are very expensive and small.

I'm 3 minutes from the Chidoya line, and 10 minutes from the Yamanote. I live in a 95sqm apartment, with a private garden, and it's cheaper than the rent controlled apartment that I had in SF (which was roughly the same size, and I had rent control for 10 years).

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#223

Post by nmfisher »

Danieru wrote: post #129
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though everyone wants to live in Tokyo, the same is true for hit real estate markets in other countries that it is being compared to. We aren’t comparing Tokyo to Duluth. Lack of building codes like must have central heat or must have bathroom also can bring housing prices down.

Tokyo's building codes do require bathrooms. Plus minimum sunshine for a room to count as a bedroom, along with shutters on all windows. What caught my eye about your comment is central heating. Japan in fact penalizes central heating. Not just not requiring it but going so far as to increase property taxes slightly. In Japan's case it is a desire to reduce energy intensity in a country dependent on energy imports.

> Tokyo's building codes do require bathrooms. Plus minimum sunshine for a room to count as a bedroom, along with shutters on all windows.

I'm actually interested to know if Melbourne has similar minimum standards. I'm mostly in favour of deregulating residential construction, but after seeing multiple shoddily built apartments with next to no sunlight in the Melbourne CBD, I shifted a bit closer to the "regulation" side of the spectrum.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#224

Post by dirtyid »

rgmerk wrote: post #5

Paris, London and New York - the key points of comparison - aren’t exactly known for their spacious housing. One other point that many of the Tokyo fans don’t acknowledge is how extraordinarily ugly the place is. Sure, it’s clean (more than you can say for New York) but clearly nobody in Tokyo cares about what their house looks like from the outside. And I’ve never seen more miserable public parks in a developed coun…

> how extraordinarily ugly the place is

First impression as well, but it's an aquired taste.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#226

Post by kiney »

jonpurdy wrote: post #153
rippercushions wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a random spot in any suburb of Tokyo in Google Maps Street View and start exploring. Here's one: 亀戸中央通り商店街 https://maps.app.goo.gl/9yY4Ncb5oM3hXqLY6 It's not particularly hideous by Tokyo (or world) standards, it's just exactly what was described earlier, a random mishmash of houses and shops in various states of repair.

You've just linked to a small, walkable street with slow traffic that has multiple food and shopping options mixed with medium density residential. Zooming out it looks like a quick walk to a metro station and multiple parks nearby. Not to mention how safe these areas are. The random mishmash of houses and shops is exactly the type of place that makes walking viable negating the need for a car (and the expense and wa…

for me it's the cables and similiar visible infrastructure. Most european cities I know have most or all of that stuff underground.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#227

Post by cthalupa »

franciscop wrote: post #35

The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience, looking at numbers it seems "Tokyo" means "Tokyo Metropolis", which includes the countryside, mountains, etc. So it's not really comparing the city. If we look at the numbers for Tokyo 23 wards[1] (what would traditionally be called "the city"), we can see they are virtually half than those from Paris or London: 16.5-19.7sqm/person is the range that fall…

When I thought I was going to be living in Tokyo for work for a couple of years, I had started to spend some significant time looking for places to rent, and yeah - I had to go out to Saitama or Chiba to find anything that I would be comfortable living in without paying absurd prices.

Which, honestly, wasn't the worst. 40 minutes to an hour on the JR is 10-30 minutes more than my current commute, but I could have dealt with that in exchange for more space.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#228

Post by tjpnz »

smcl wrote: post #82
johnwalkr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a stretch and it is hard to get a home loan in your first years. It is true that when searching for a rental you will probably come across landlords that don't rent to foreigners, and more that won't rent to Chinese people. Many landlords also expect you to speak at least some Japanese. That being said, it's competitive only for average sized/priced places. Both low end and above-average properties are easier…

Just out of curiosity - is it largely just "I only speak Japanese and don't know how I'd deal with a foreigner" thing or do those kinds of landlords tend to think negatively of the foreigners? As an immigrant I know it can be a bit fiddly to resolve some things when there's a language barrier, but as long as both sides are patient and willing to try things can go relatively smoothly

In my own experience it's very much about the language barrier. I was able to smooth over many issues getting into my current place by mentioning my wife was Japanese.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#229

Post by franciscop »

wst_ wrote: post #203
franciscop wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely do, I was paid for it working at a Japanese company, and I know multiple personal cases where that happened as well (one was a dormitory, another full housing, and another partial housing). The internet is full of evidence that it happens , so my question is "how often?". e.g. https://www.gtalent.jp/blog/japanwork-en/social-insurance-we... or https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/54fjgf/how_much…

Maybe it's a thing in foreign company and foreign employees. Plus, note that reddit thread is 6y old and already plenty of answers say are getting nothing from the company. I've never heard of Japanese company paying Japanese employee for rent, even partially. Nor I would expect it to be a common thing. As said, though, I just worked in two companies and just have a bunch of friends, which makes it purely anecdotal.

I specified Japanese company for a reason... I've worked in 3 Japanese companies, 2 being "foreigner" (where they did not offer that) and one traditional Japanese (where they offered that).

I know 3 Japanese people (nothing to do with foreigners or foreign companies) that had their house paid by the company totally or partially, and they told me it was common in their company/industry. And those were large industries (train company, hospital, manufacturing).

Mine is anecdotal, but from how they described it it's an anecdote involving hundreds to thousands of people indirectly, so I'm very confident that it's not an isolated thing.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#230

Post by bluefirebrand »

jbverschoor wrote: post #216
spoonjim wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in 250sqft with a shared bathroom in NYC for 2 years and loved it. Loved in 800 sqft in suburban America for 4 months and couldn’t handle it. In a big city with affordable Third Spaces you can simply live outside of your apartment.

The thing is that you’re not living in your apt. You live in the city with all the buzz. In the suburbs you’ll have to get that buzz in your house somehow

Generally you move to the suburbs to get away from the buzz.
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