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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#221
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve never had a background check for any US job I’ve had How would you know? That said, I suspect I have not as the first one was out of school and the few other jobs I've had were all from people I knew.

I signed a release when the employer did a background check on me. And was provided a copy of it. The latter I think is state law here, the former I think is also law but I’m not 100% sure.

I can believe it's a state law--or even a company just doing it as a matter of CYA policy. I assume it's pretty easy to run a background check without someone knowing though. And of course it's quite common to provide reference although I don't know how commonly companies contact them--I suspect not often.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#222
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to mix up something. termination with advance notice is a normal process and pretty much always possible. i doubt there is any country in the world where you can't terminate employees with sufficient advance notice. the periods for advance notice differ but the process is otherwise the same in austria or in germany for example. and i am pretty sure most EU countries are similar. i only heard about france hav…

>termination with advance notice is a normal process and pretty much always possible. i doubt there is any country in the world where you can't terminate employees with sufficient advance notice I think you are misunderstanding. Unlike Austria, in most others EU countries you can't terminate employees, even with notice, without providing a reason.

ok, it looks like i was wrong. i thought i read that in germany too employees can be terminated without reason. further search found that to be false.

it seems that austria really is the bad exception here.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on where you live, at least in Europe most people would find the word inappropriate. For us here "disobedience" or something alike would be a better term.

I disagree (and am European, and a union rep for many years). Subordination is what I expect from an employee and obedience from a dog. Subordination is a role you opt into. Obedience is something you can't get away from. You take a job as mailman and then you are a subordinate to the postmaster. Refusing to carry out sensible and appropriate orders (without a valid reason) is insubordination and grounds for being fi…

Subordination:

1. The act of subordinating, subjecting, or placing in a lower order, rank, or position, or in proper degrees of rank; also, the state of being subordinate or inferior; inferiority of rank or dignity.

2. Degree of lesser rank.

3. The state of being under control of government; subjection to rule; habit of obedience to orders.

4. The act of subordinating, placing in a lower order, or subjecting.

5. The quality or state of being subordinate or inferior to an other; inferiority of rank or dignity; subjection.

6. Place of inferior rank.

7. The process of making something subordinate.

8. The property of being subordinate.

9. The quality of being properly obedient to a superior (as a superior officer).

As you see when you expect your dog to be obedient your are placing yourself on a higher rank, so your dog is your subordinate.

When you expect your employee to be subordinate your are expecting him to obey when something is asked or tasked from ranks higher than their's in your organization. Your are also expecting him to obey to what is written in the subordination contract signed by both.

Wikipedia: obedience, in human behavior, is a form of "social influence in which a person yields to explicit instructions or orders from an authority figure".

What I think to be the main issue is the word "order". IMHO an order is not something that might exist in a workplace, with few exceptions. Your boss gives you tasks and expect you to execute them remaining inside a more or less explicit set of rules, your boss cannot give you orders.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#224
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve never had a background check for any US job I’ve had How would you know? That said, I suspect I have not as the first one was out of school and the few other jobs I've had were all from people I knew.

I signed a release when the employer did a background check on me. And was provided a copy of it. The latter I think is state law here, the former I think is also law but I’m not 100% sure.

Same here. Discovery channel made me sign a release. It’s like whatever, free way for me to check myself as they’re required to give you a copy.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course that would work, but that requires the economy to not adapt itself to the new prices, which requires politicians to step in and prevent the richer people from buying up things which makes would-be families feel too uneasy about starting a family. It'd be far more desirable to return to situations where most of the budget is spent on luxury and only a little is spent on any kind of milestone, but that's a ca…

>> which requires politicians to step in Ironically politicians "stepping in" is the biggest reason cost of living is going up. Regulations preventing new housing, limiting new housing, etc. Monetary policies and massive debt fueled spending spree's causing massive inflation, draconian lock downs disrupting supply chains, irresponsible "climate" policies preventing farmers from growing food affordably, the 100's of o…

You’re presenting an incredibly contentious opinion as fact..

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#227
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it also work to just make everything cheaper for everyone? Housing has increased so much in cost that I wouldn't be surprised that just having housing back to 1980s price levels would give most families enough breathing room with just unpaid leave.

Better yet, shouldn't we just make everything free for everyone? Housing costs are outrageous. It would be great if houses were free. And food too. And cars and clothing. I guess the only problem is then everyone's wage would have to be $0 as well.

i don't see why zero wages would be a problem in that case. it would be a money-less society like in star trek. whether that's realistic is another discussion.

but how about universal basic income instead?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

Must suck being a father and not being able to take leave with your kids. We get 10 days when the baby is born. Plus lots of days until the child is X years, I think 11 years.

To be fair, it used to be two days (!) up until 5 years ago in the Netherlands. We're still the worst place for young parents and fathers in particular in western Europe.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#229
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are the membership fee of society

There are many public finance options to fund society in more equal way than taking a persons labor. If there is anything akin to "wage slavery" in modern times it is more because of income tax than anything else Personal I am supporter of the Henry George Single Tax model to fund society instead of income based taxation

Personally I think the only problem with current taxes is the primitive nature of the bands in most cases and that non-labour income is often taxed far less heavily.

Progressive taxation is our most effective tool for ensuring that a few people don't end up owning everything. For those of us who end up wealthier than the rest it's the price you pay for society providing you with a healthy, educated workforce, currency, roads etc.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#230
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIPs are a tool for managing out employees that don’t perform well or don’t yield to often abusive company demands like e.g. overtime or pissed of somebody in management or connected to management.

I’ve never ever ever seen a PIP used in a positive way. It’s almost always been a way for petty toxic management that resented an employee not tolerating an abusive environment.

For management it is a win-win. If the employee fails they have a record that they can use to defend themselves in court against a discrimination lawsuit. If it actually helps, they retain a worker with perhaps improved productivity. Companies can use them for either or both
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