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Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
221–230 of 271 posts
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
Popular endorsement of harassment to the point of suicide seems like a worse sign, personally. When it comes to threats to freedom of expression, I'm much more concerned about the religious right's abuse of government authority to censor education, ban books, and suppress the vote, than I am about private institutions taking steps to protect human life.
Private institutions have every right to stand behind whoever they choose. As a user, I have no intention of using Cloudflare because (even as a queer individual) I don't feel safe using a platform that would censor me if enough people were mad enough. I would much rather choose a platform that stands by their TOS as-written, instead of stepping in to arbitrate on a case-by-case basis. Cloudflare has ever right to op…
"I would much rather choose a platform that stands by their TOS as-written"
Terminating services to Kiwi Farms was completely in line with Cloudflare's TOS as-written.
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#223So they are entirely fine with distributing pirated material, but a forum is too much? Reminds me to never to donate to them. I won't support censorious fascists.
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
They've been harassing people to the point, and with the intent of them committing suicide.
This also includes harassing their family and employers.
So will the same rules be applied to all internet sites where any cases of this happen? Like let's say youtube, facebook and twitter?
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody said that.
By claiming censorship, it's implied that they deserve a platform, and to not have that taken away from them. You can't censor someone without a platform.
You know about the Spanish Inquisition, right? Have you heard what Catholics say about it? They say that according to their records it wasn't that bad[0] and that the numbers are deliberately inflated by anti-Catholic sentiment.
It would be great if there were some other record keeper so we could ensure the church didn't "lose" any records that made them look bad.
But I'm sure you would have stopped any 3rd party back then who was setting out to transcribe the inquisitions' trials. After all, they were just giving the church yet another platform to spread their intolerance.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/16/artsandhumanit...
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#226Well I guess there is now limited ways for someone to evaluate for themselves on whether KF was posting horrific content without significant moderation. Guess we at least have Taylor Lorenz to tell us exactly what is going on here in a full and unbiased way. Someone here at HN at least posted this link which told more of the story than I have seen anywhere else. Also search the HN archives (for now at least it seems)…
They still have an hidden service online [0], an ipv6 only mirror [1] and they are working on restoring it "as normal" [2]. In any case they stated a backup of the site will be publicly available if they give up [3]. I find interesting they took the archived copy down instead of keeping it publicly available since it was the only way to prove what kiwifarms has done instead of having as only source "trust me bro". Ei…
And as someone else said:
One can also use a Tor proxy (tor2web), there is a list here: https://gist.github.com/adulau/5caf188bb1f63263bf7ac00c4a19f...
For example, appending ".moe" to the ".onion" in that URL: https://uquusqsaaad66cvub4473csdu4uu7ahxou3zqc35fpw5d4ificed...
Which also allows it to be archived (as the mainstream archive sites don't recognise Tor hidden services): https://web.archive.org/web/20220905153904/https://uquusqsaa...
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#227Well I guess there is now limited ways for someone to evaluate for themselves on whether KF was posting horrific content without significant moderation. Guess we at least have Taylor Lorenz to tell us exactly what is going on here in a full and unbiased way. Someone here at HN at least posted this link which told more of the story than I have seen anywhere else. Also search the HN archives (for now at least it seems)…
Fun fact: Taylor Lorenz's Twitter account is also excluded from the internet archive.
Another fun fact:
Taylor's uncle is Roger Macdonald, apparently a fairly prominent operator within the internet archive:
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#228Well I guess there is now limited ways for someone to evaluate for themselves on whether KF was posting horrific content without significant moderation. Guess we at least have Taylor Lorenz to tell us exactly what is going on here in a full and unbiased way. Someone here at HN at least posted this link which told more of the story than I have seen anywhere else. Also search the HN archives (for now at least it seems)…
From the article:
> "Short version: [Kiwi Farms is] A very edgy forum ... where users cruelly gossip and post public information on niche online oddities (lolcows) that thrive on the attention KF gives them." [Emphasis mine.]
This piece of egregious victim-blaming should have been your cue to ignore this article. If it wasn't, the victim-blaming in the rest of the article (such as "She probably genuinely enjoys it. Or she has a death drive, a martyr complex.") should have cued you in.
There's a lot more people who were targeted by KF than Keffals. The majority were ordinary people who were part of a minority and had just enough of a platform to be on their radar (or were related to/had a similar name to someone who was). "They put themselves out there, online", but that doesn't mean they "have no one to blame but themself" for the harassment and death threats they received. They didn't do anything wrong. The fault lies fully on the users of Kiwi Farms and those who created and supported a community that allowed them to organize and coordinate their harassment.
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#229I guess the internet archive doesn’t take their mission of preserving the internet very seriously
Kiwi Farms has a thread on Taylor Lorenz from WaPo, because of certain erratic behavior. Taylor got her own dirt removed from the internet archive. Taylor has been helping Clara go after Kiwi Farms.
Taylor's uncle is Roger MacDonald, founder of TV News archive:
https://archive.org/details/roger-macdonald-tv-archive
https://dicktracyonline.substack.com/p/who-is-taylor-lorenz
And of course you've already begun downvoting.
Re: Kiwi Farms has been removed from the Internet Archive
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think the parents whose child was on the cover of Nat Geo count as a "public internet persona"? Do you think it's right that people should be forced to go into hiding and avoid something as basic as a magazine interview for fear of becoming a target on these sites? What you're advocating is complete self-censorship for people with views these websites consider targets.
Right. Also, we're glossing over the fact that it's not just bullying, but swatting, threatening phone calls, contacting employers to seek termination, email spam, sending unpaid-for pizzas, etc. It's not just words.
So the logical response is going to service providers and business partners to get them deplatformed?
>It's not just bullying
Which is already able to be dealt with as harassment, and is defanged in this case in the judicial system most likely under assumption of risk doctrine as a public figure.
>It's swatting Already illegal, and has metadata trail through which filing a false report can be dealt with.
>threatening phone calls Jesus. So block or screen them. Should I go running to the police because I'm harassed by marketers all the time? Furthermore, LE has the metadata to deal with that too, and if they tell you they don't, they're lying.
>contacting employers to seek termination
Twitter does a lot of that too. Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it?
>email spam
Should be a capital offense with death penalty viable, but alas, it's email. Ignore it. Or have fun with it, see how big your collection can get. Start seeing how many times things get repeated. Start doing data analysis on it.
>sending unpaid-for pizzas
Correct response: I'm sorry, but I did not order any. I have a bit of a problem with people online trying to troll me. Here's my contact info, here's a codeword/auth mechanism that can be used to authenticate something came from me in the future. Done. Would recommend actually vetting the establishment in question, and if you know you are bringing this to your locality, be responsible and proactively front-run it by going and talking to local places that deliver to you.
>It's not just words.
It totally is. In point of fact, freedom to communicate without someone else deplatforming you is so important, we call it freedom of speech. Nobody else is forcing the person in question to continue feeding the trolls, and it is a poignant point of fact that if they are disturbed by the observations these people are making, it may be worth taking a moment to reorient around their own actions, and to be a bit more self-conscious on what it is they do that may be setting off others in such a way as it does.
But no, continue to regale us all about how there is no other more reasonable, local, and less harmful way to deal with something like this than blasting the Internet, and encouraging the weaponization of the infrastructure at the core of technological advancement for the last 50 or so years.