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German digital signage ban prompts confusion

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Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#221

Post by tauchunfall »

Bewelge wrote: post #151
adrianN wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those areas are explicitly excluded from this.

Those areas are the only areas I can think of that have LED signs in Germany though. Of course not entirely sure but I don't think there's a single one of those large LED screens (like the ones on time square) in Hamburg. Maybe Berlin/Frankfurt have some? Unless I'm completely blanking on these signs being used elsewhere, excluding the bus-stop signs sounds like this will not have any noticeable effect apart from pro…

>but I don't think there's a single one of those large LED screens (like the ones on time square) in Hamburg

yes, I also did not notice any of those here in Hamburg. there is a smaller one in Harvestehude; even those are so rare that I clearly noticed this one.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#222

Post by Xylakant »

locallost wrote: post #202
polycaster wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where this number comes from. Statistisches Bundesamt says it's 1,958 kwh. https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Enviro... Interestingly, for 2 person households they state 3,196 kwh and for 3+ person households 4,919 kwh. Energy consumption scales worse than I expected. I assumed there would be more synergy in shared households.

That's pretty crazy. We used to spend 1400 KWh as a family of three. Didn't check the latest numbers as a family of four, but I don't expect a lot more. We even cook / bake a lot. What on earth are people spending electricity on?

The numbers cited here included electricity for warm water and heating. Both are outrageously energy-intensive. The figured for electric appliances only are roughly in line with yours.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#223

Post by actionfromafar »

_kbh_ wrote: post #214
fuoqi wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Currently we think about the nuclear fleet in the Ukraine which is literally under fire from Russia. It's hilarious how the Western politicians and mass media seriously blame Russia for shelling a nuclear plant which it controls for a number of months. And a lot of people either blindly trust this narrative, or intentionally spread misinformation with the sole goal to demonize Russia as much as possible. It reminds…

> And a lot of people either blindly trust this narrative, or intentionally spread misinformation with the sole goal to demonize Russia as much as possible. No one needs to demonise a country that commits genocide and has its military rape children, the Russians are plenty good at demonising themselves. > As far as I know, the goal of shelling (which for the time being does not target the reactors or the spent fuel s…

But why don't they just cut the connection at the plant. Agreed about demonizing themselves, they do.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#224

Post by jansan »

madduci wrote: post #170
xxs wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1300 kwh/year this is extremely, extremely low. No heating, no cooling, no hot water, no car charging. A fridge alone tends to be over 400KW/h. Edit: polycaster listed close to 5kWh/year for 3+ household. 1person being 2k. So, extremely low estimate.

As household made of 4 persons, with me permanently in Home-Office, have a consumption of roughly ~2300kWh/year, including heating, in Germany. Waschmaschine and Dryer are almost on a daily basis used (the dryer is used less during hot season) If you tend to buy energetic-efficient devices, your power bill is lower, in front of higher costs for the equipment.

~2300kWh/year, including heating

And how do you achieve this? What is your energy source for heating?

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#225

Post by moffkalast »

sexy_panda wrote: post #108
moffkalast wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone lauds LEDs for being super energy efficient, but the reality is that they really aren't. It's just that they are being compared to even worse light sources that were so bad at efficiency it's hard to really grasp how much they sucked.

Is there a more efficient way of producing light? Because I don't know of any.

It's the most efficient option we have, but that doesn't mean it's good.

In the 1800s the steam engine was the most efficient way of producing work from heat, but that still didn't make it objectively efficient.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#226

Post by moffkalast »

andrepd wrote: post #143
moffkalast wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone lauds LEDs for being super energy efficient, but the reality is that they really aren't. It's just that they are being compared to even worse light sources that were so bad at efficiency it's hard to really grasp how much they sucked.

LEDs can light a medium-sized room with <5W. That's incredibly energy efficient.

Not when you consider that it's still heating the room with 3 of those watts.

If you asked me to build a house and I threw away more than half of the bricks you'd call me crazy. But when it comes to leds it's called "incredible efficiency". It's only efficient in comparison to the other options, not in any objective sense.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#227

Post by cbg0 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #76
louwrentius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I n NL we have human size billboards that have active cooling for crying out loud. When you walk past them, you hear a loud fan. Just such a waste of energy. I wish advertising should only be forbidden to use active lighting at all.

So many best and brightest in our society work on ads, from google ads to these billboars. If these efforts were invested in something usefull...

This is not an either or proposition, we can do both useful & not useful things at the same time.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#228

Post by mnw21cam »

nousermane wrote: post #16
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #3

I wish the whole world would do this stuff. Light pollution sucks. It's understandable from street lights but other sources aren't as excusable.

Even outdoor lighting is not without problems, especially two recent trends are worrying: - shift from low-pressure sodium lamps (which emit 95%+ of light in the narrow peak, so are a bit easier to filter out in astronomy application, and also don't trigger blue-light neural response in humans, and animals alike) to LEDs (which pollute across the visible spectrum, with plenty of blue light component); - as light effi…

My village recently switched to LED street lamps, and I hate them. The light pollution has definitely become worse here over the last ten years. The village lights switch off around 1am, but that doesn't seem to make a jot of difference to my astrophotography, because the town 4 miles to the South and the city 10 miles to the North keep theirs switched on.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#229

Post by tauchunfall »

>It said that a single LED sign consumes as much energy as 10 single households.

I guess it's good to reduce energy consumption where we can. And political decisions only work in small focused steps.

I wonder what happens when they find out how much energy probably is wasted for advertisements on television and the internet.

Re: German digital signage ban prompts confusion

#230

Post by nano9 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #66
GekkePrutser wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, emitting light through a thick diffuser and a poster is not as efficient as just putting up a light.

Agreed completely. As I said in the last bit: The proper solution is to put up proper lighting.

I can see this degenerating into some sort of efficiency metric that will be engineered around. For instance, it wouldn't be too hard to take the Google logo and make it a proper "light" with some LEDs. Or simply write out the name in white LEDs.
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