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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#221

Post by rsynnott »

texasbigdata wrote: post #162
rsynnott wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. This company really has made Jobs' reality distortion field pale in comparison. Without comment on the specific innovation in the article, it's a _very_ weird assumption that all innovation in a field would stem from one company. That's…

I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric, then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative, it's hard to take them seriously now that they're just responding to stay relevant / alive. If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had.…

> I think the reticence is the old attitude that you basically had to drag the old car manufacturers to electric,

But... that's not really true? Nissan and Renault's first modern electric platforms predate the Tesla Model S. VW's is only slightly newer (and of course it had a few NiCad false starts in the 90s).

> then they insisted on doing design after design of the clearly inferior hydrogen alternative

That's mostly just Toyota.

> If they really "cared" about EV this would have come 20 years earlier given the sheer scale of endowed resources they had

No, it wouldn't. VW and GM, at least, tried in the 90s, but it just wasn't a runner with NiCad batteries. Electric cars were effectively gated on battery tech.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#222

Post by ZeroGravitas »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #157
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the signal from those experts is crystal clear: climate change is a non-issue. Wow. Considering that expertise in climate change is given by money rather than, you know, being an actual trained academic in the field, is peak capitalism. But anyway, assuming they really behave as "experts", yeah, the signal is crystal clear... For them. It's much less of an issue if you have enough money to move to whatever places i…

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#223

Post by rsynnott »

texasbigdata wrote: post #177
izacus wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bizarre post - the "old" manufacturers have pretty much all released excellent EV cars across the market, many better than Tesla offerings in many ways. Why the wierd goalpost moving of having to do this 20 years ago?

I'm not really familiar with this market but I'll just quote one article from last week suggesting it's a bit more lopsided than that; things can change quickly obviously. "Tesla accounts for more than two-thirds of all-electric car registrations (almost 68%), which is a dominant position, but the non-Tesla electric vehicle sales are growing at a similar rate and potentially might outpace Tesla later this year." If y…

> If youre outselling everyone else _combined_ that suggests a clear current market winner.

I mean, if you assume the US is the only market which exists, then, yeah, okay? Tesla is third or fourth in Europe and in China, both of which are larger BEV markets than the US, though.

The electric car market has been slower to develop in the US than in Europe and China for a variety of reasons (fuel's cheaper in the US for tax reasons, the average drive is much longer, consumer taste is more oriented towards large SUVs and trucks), but develop it has, and US consumers should soon have about as much choice of electric cards as consumers in other markets.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#224

Post by ubercore »

kolinko wrote: post #166
audunw wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it wouldn't be part of the wheel... there's no reason for it to be, and it'd make the car impossible to use in countries with snow where you need to change the wheel every spring and winter.

You change tires, not the whole wheels between seasons.

At least here in Norway, you change the whole wheel.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#225

Post by darkwater »

clouddrover wrote: post #219
darkwater wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's trending up, and they cost 10k more than the most similar VW model (and the difference is worth). But Tesla is totally the Apple of cars where VW is the Samsung.

I think you're looking at the wrong line. Tesla was at 30.77% in 2019, 13.28% in 2020, 13.78% in 2021, and so far in 2022 Tesla is 11.95% of the European EV market.

I was looking at the trend over years, Tesla was high, then low, then it's trending up again. VW is trending down. Nissan was #1 by a massive margin and it's going down into oblivion almost

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#226

Post by h0l0cube »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #163
h0l0cube wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gore, Obama, Trudeau, Gates, and DiCaprio as my guiding stars on this matter Terrible choice of guiding stars. The scientists that have been studying this and raising the alarm bells since the 70s are the guiding star. If you're feeling threatened by what the scientists are saying, and believe in them, I couldn't see how your protest is an honest attempt to help the situation. I agree most celebrity activists are h…

> Terrible choice of guiding stars. So you confess your extremist heretical beliefs in denying the integrity, honesty, and expertise in the ruling of society of these people? Sounds like a dangerous, seditious thing to think. > The scientists that have been studying this and raising the alarm bells since the 70s Of course, I would never doubt The Science of climate change. What I am talking about is what we should do…

> dangerous, seditious thing to think

I think maybe you're spending too much time online.

> and those experts

Not sure why you keep calling political entities 'experts'. They are definitely experts of their political domains, but this claim of their prime importance on climate change matters seems to be your own.

To go back to what I'm guessing is your concern: No one's coming to steal your right to drive a Tesla, but more people might just opt to not own their own vehicle, as public transport options improve. If 50 years from now, people are able to use shared transport to get door-to-door from city A to city B, and at a similar (or better) speed, for less money, the demand for vehicles may drop. As autonomous vehicles are getting better, it's only a matter of time.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#227

Post by clouddrover »

darkwater wrote: post #225
clouddrover wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're looking at the wrong line. Tesla was at 30.77% in 2019, 13.28% in 2020, 13.78% in 2021, and so far in 2022 Tesla is 11.95% of the European EV market.

I was looking at the trend over years, Tesla was high, then low, then it's trending up again. VW is trending down. Nissan was #1 by a massive margin and it's going down into oblivion almost

Eh, no. Tesla has trended down in market share over the five years since 2017.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#228

Post by iamricks »

LegitShady wrote: post #220
chakintosh wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I cringed reading that line. Koenigsegg (yes, the hyper car company) made a motor the size of a briefcase that can output 355HP and weighs 30Kg. This is one random example of a company with not much experience in EVs (their Hybrid cars' motors and batteries are made by Rimac) improving on what Tesla is already doing.

koenigsegg makes cars so expensive in numbers so small that they arent relevant to even fairly wealthy people, so its a bit like discussing nasa's latest advances instead of cars that can actually be bought. did koenigsegg do something cool? sure. theres about 100-200 people who dont work at koenigseff whose life that will affect and nobody else. theyre pretty irrelevent.

Koenigsegg does innovate a lot in manufacturing car parts for their hypercars, if you watched Christian von Koenigsegg speak about the engineering they do its really impressive.

In some alternate universe CVK is making cars that compete with Tesla and are better. Although they make amazing products i wish he and his team of brilliant engineers would work on inexpensive cars, im almost certain they could innovate in the space.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#229

Post by arethuza »

LegitShady wrote: post #220
chakintosh wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I cringed reading that line. Koenigsegg (yes, the hyper car company) made a motor the size of a briefcase that can output 355HP and weighs 30Kg. This is one random example of a company with not much experience in EVs (their Hybrid cars' motors and batteries are made by Rimac) improving on what Tesla is already doing.

koenigsegg makes cars so expensive in numbers so small that they arent relevant to even fairly wealthy people, so its a bit like discussing nasa's latest advances instead of cars that can actually be bought. did koenigsegg do something cool? sure. theres about 100-200 people who dont work at koenigseff whose life that will affect and nobody else. theyre pretty irrelevent.

Things like dual clutch gearboxes seem to an example of something that originated in exotic cars and have made the transition to low end cars.

I have a very humble Skoda with DSG and it works really well even though it has a 1L engine :-)

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#230

Post by iamricks »

chakintosh wrote: post #196
rsynnott wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. This company really has made Jobs' reality distortion field pale in comparison. Without comment on the specific innovation in the article, it's a _very_ weird assumption that all innovation in a field would stem from one company. That's…

Yeah I cringed reading that line. Koenigsegg (yes, the hyper car company) made a motor the size of a briefcase that can output 355HP and weighs 30Kg. This is one random example of a company with not much experience in EVs (their Hybrid cars' motors and batteries are made by Rimac) improving on what Tesla is already doing.

What they do over at Koenigsegg is amazing, i feel like most people arent aware at the incredible things they do, CVK is an amazing engineer too and its awesome watching him speak about the cars.
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