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The Global Cost of Corrosion

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Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#221

Post by boringg »

imchillyb wrote: post #116
boringg wrote: post #31

Isn't this like corrosion engineers validating their own industry? I mean it's a fair talking point but also like asking VCs how good their returns are?

> https://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/written-materials/2021/11/15/... > …Public investment in U.S. infrastructure as a share of GDP has fallen by more than 40 percent since the 1960s. The World Economic Forum now ranks the United States 13th when it comes to the overall quality of infrastructure...

I'm not saying it isn't right, I'm just pointing out the inherent bias. Infrastructure in the US is woefully lacking.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#222

Post by bliteben »

kube-system wrote: post #152
bliteben wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry I annoyed you. I thought I covered both in my post. Feels like you have to walk on egg shells around here least someone correct you.

> least someone correct you. lest someone correct you. ...Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Haha

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#223

Post by function_seven »

eternityforest wrote: post #212
function_seven wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are these world-changing inventions we look back on and marvel at. The Haber–Bosch process, the Bessemer process, rubber vulcanization, etc. My dream is one for stainless steel. Come up with either a different alloy or an improved process to make corrosion-proof metal from abundant iron. I can't imagine the leap forward if a chunk of stainless cost nearly the same as mild steel. (And didn't have weird failure m…

For some applications, plastic fills that role very well. A lot of stuff would probably be made with plastic, and be just as durable, if we didn't have this "Stuff should feel substantial" design mindset. It's amazing how there's such a strong preference for things with size and weight, and how plastic is seen as cheap trash rather than an engineering marvel.

I have a hand cart / furniture dolly that's almost entirely plastic. The only metal bits on it are the axle and the handle. It's perfectly durable and I've used it to cart around items that weigh 600 lbs. (300kg).

It's also a good little example of where plastic is good and where it's not. The axle and the handle get the largest amount of stress, so they remain steel, while the body of the cart can be a trussed plastic mold to achieve the strength needed.

Portable gas cans are another area where plastic wins in my book. It's lighter, more impact resistant, and cheaper to mass produce. And it don't rust! Sure, there are probably niche cases where you want a metal jerry can, but for most applications a blow-molded plastic container is better even if it wasn't also cheaper.

But I still think a cheap, strong, and corrosion-resistant (or -proof!) metal would be revolutionary. For all the structural uses where plastic won't do. Vehicle frames, airframes, bridges, tooling, etc. My holy grail here is something that's basically aluminum, but without the fatigue issues. Oh, and closer to steel in cost.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#224

Post by rasz »

hadlock wrote: post #67
hristov wrote: post #8

This is an important issue. People keep talking about recycling, but much more important than recycling is just being able to use a thing for longer before you are even thinking about recycling it. Japanese automakers did the world a great favor when in the 80s and 90s they made much longer lasting cars and made longevity and resale value an important consideration in the purchasing decision. They did this mostly by…

Porsche started galvanizing their bodies in the 1970s, VW started in the 1980s, Japan only started galvanizing their bodies in export markets, in response to the germans, and only recently (last 15 years) have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import.

Some Japanese brands are "galvanizing" instead of proper electro-galvanizing. Here is investigation into Mazda, legendary for rotting into nothing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/mazda3/comments/adioma/polish_autom...

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#225

Post by JohnBooty »

jacquesm wrote: post #99
JohnBooty wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do aftermarket "anti-rust coatings" actually work? Y'know, the kind people are always trying to sell you at auto dealerships and the like?

That depends on the state of your paint. If the paint is still good it will help a bit because the coating will take some of the wear. But if the paint is already damaged then rust will have started and applying a coating on top of that won't make much difference, though it may slow things down a little bit. The best protection against rust is to keep your car clean, especially from leaves, bird droppings and other d…

I appreciate this reply, thanks.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#226

Post by fomine3 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #220
fomine3 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not uncommon to buy used car like newer than 10yo in Japan now. I can see many such cars at the road side used car shop. Because Japanese people especially in rural area (who need car) getting poor relatively, newer cars getting expensive thanks to safety and comfortable equipment, and reliability is improved, used cars getting more reasonable. After 13yo, vehicle tax increases so it's not popular but still sold…

Is this new in Japan or has it always been the way?

There have been used car market like now at least for 25 years, but I believe acceptable car age getting wider. 8yo car should be fine to buy also in 2012.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#227

Post by rasz »

bradfa wrote: post #84
jacquesm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, any particular brands or is that across the board? Here we liberally salt our roads as well in winter and in the past cars would not last a decade before falling apart. Now you really have to look to figure out which cars are new, 10 or 20 years old. Rust is - as far as I can see - a solved problem. Not many US cars on the road here though.

Chevrolet and GMC full size pickup trucks and SUVs are probably the worst offenders. Which seems counter intuitive since many of GM's engineering and design happens in northern climates with salted roads. It's not all of GM's vehicles which are subject to this, many do have good corrosion resistance, they just choose to only use such techniques on a subset of the vehicles they produce. For example: https://static.nht…

>A few years back now Toyota had a big recall

Mustie1, absolute YT gem of a human being, did a couple videos showing his efforts to salvage post recall Toyotas. Recall was a scam. Instead of replacing bad frame, or stripping, cleaning and repainting Toyota opted to pay third party contractor to just spray some black goo on frame rails so they last 12 more months while the goo hides corrosion (and traps more moisture speeding up the process).

RRRUST 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s7N8QEAAeM

toyota 4runner frame rust repair 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBB8YX1I1QU

more toyota frame repair 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdLNKOdi4-A

Toyota Tundra frame repair 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IBXYnYYccI

toyota tundra rusted frame repair update 2 winters later 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn-cqoVYQR0

TLDR involved welding plates to replace eaten metal and regularly coating in oil/liquid film protection every year.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#228

Post by rasz »

Ralo wrote: post #185
hristov wrote: post #8

This is an important issue. People keep talking about recycling, but much more important than recycling is just being able to use a thing for longer before you are even thinking about recycling it. Japanese automakers did the world a great favor when in the 80s and 90s they made much longer lasting cars and made longevity and resale value an important consideration in the purchasing decision. They did this mostly by…

Owning a 1994 Toyota pickup, this truck has been argued as one of the toughest trucks ever made. However, they rust. Badly. It's usually the frame, starting from the inside where it collects dirt and water absorbs into it where it won't evaporate and will stay in there damp for months. Cutting and welding patches onto a frame isn't the biggest deal, and you can install drain holes with places to spray cavity wax coat…

I just posted a bunch of YT links that show how that process looks like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32233327

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#229

Post by rasz »

Blackthorn wrote: post #151
nradov wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota has had a serious problem with truck frames rusting. https://www.autoblog.com/2016/11/14/toyota-3-billion-settlem...

You can and should fix this yourself if you own one. Spray cosmoline or fluid film on the frame. Cosmoline is perfect because you can pressure wash the dirt off but it won't disturb the cosmoline film.

At this point there is nothing to spray on, it all fell apart. It was already bad at the moment they did the recall 6 years ago with frames having fist sized holes. The way you could fix it was cutting the frame up and replacing with fresh metal plates piece by piece.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#230

Post by [deleted] »

justinator wrote: post #126
mattnewton wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it reuse? Reduce - don’t buy another car, reuse - keep using your car, or buy a used car, recycle - sell your old car for scrap.

Perhaps we should add, "Reconsider" as in, "Reconsider purchasing the item, when it's not needed, or a better alternative exists".

[deleted]
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