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Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

spiegel.de

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Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#221

Post by nisa »

antisthenes wrote: post #168
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

> just a small 2 person flat in a small town > 1600€/year Something really doesn't add up here. If your bill is so high, why haven't you done anything to mitigate it? Can you add insulation? What's the temperature kept at in the heating months? How much would lowering it lower the costs? Is there a possibility of putting solar collectors on the rooftop and heating with hot water? Even in winter they can get water up…

You are correct. Just took a brief look in the calculation for the whole house and it's more like near 700€ - sorry for that. I've corrected it.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#222

Post by lostapathy »

baisq wrote: post #190
excieve wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Ukrainian, I sincerely thank you for writing this. It is often disheartening to see how many people of HN don't realise what is happening (and, frankly, has been happening for 8 years) and then read cold opinions devoid of empathy. What is the compromise when the other side's goal is extermination?

Quoted post unavailable.

Not caring only really works, in this case, if you think Russia would stop if they conquer Ukraine. Personally I don’t think they will stop there, so sooner or later everyone in Europe will eventually need to worry.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#223

Post by rmbyrro »

nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

I remember Trump saying that "Germany is a captive of Russia" [1] because of the prospect of weaponized gas supply cuts.

I also hate to say, but, at that particular moment, the man was right.

This is why political extremism is bad. Nobody in Europe listened to him. Had him be more respectful, polite and balanced in his communication, maybe he could have convinced Germany to anticipate what they're scrambling to do now...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liGZGGQTYQk

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#224

Post by ceejayoz »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #214
baisq wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

And it's not just Ukraine - what about Sri Lanka which is collapsing by the minute? I do care about the people, but if I am completely honest, I could care less about the government. If the current government can fend off Russia, great, but maybe (I don't know for sure) it would be better for the people for some sort of diplomatic solution to be created (perhaps surrender a part of Ukraine but allow anyone interested…

Sri Lanka hasn't spent the last decade invading multiple nations. Ukraine's not facing internal strife, they're facing an external threat.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#225

Post by d0mine »

Spooky23 wrote: post #20

The whole Ukraine/Russia conflict underscores how poor the strategic position of Europe and the US is with respect to Europe. We’ve been phoning it in since the Clinton era and assuming that “norms” and oligarchs would keep Russia at bay. End of the day they got tanks, nukes and are learning what they can get away with.

Yeah, it is much better to buy for 3x price from war profiters if they feel generous /s

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#226

Post by nisa »

kmlx wrote: post #167
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

not sure if my bills are too low or yours are too high. i live in a large flat in London with my partner. fully electric, no gas, but the building was awarded for being ultra efficient. i used to pay £60/month for the electricity in summer and £100/month in winter. now it’s £80 during summer. winter heating involves shorts and tshirt. usual amenities: large oled, dishwasher every day, washing machine every other day…

Took the wrong number it's more like 700€/year. And we heated quite a bit in 2021 due to homeoffice and other causes. Sorry for the mishap.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#227

Post by TuringNYC »

kmlx wrote: post #167
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

not sure if my bills are too low or yours are too high. i live in a large flat in London with my partner. fully electric, no gas, but the building was awarded for being ultra efficient. i used to pay £60/month for the electricity in summer and £100/month in winter. now it’s £80 during summer. winter heating involves shorts and tshirt. usual amenities: large oled, dishwasher every day, washing machine every other day…

I've found a lot of bills are driven by how well insulated apartments are. Some leak heat left and right.

Another factor is how many open surface areas they have and the size of windows. I had an apartment that I rarely heated in the winter because it was wrapped on 5 of 6 sides by other apartments and the only exposed surface was a wall. Other apartments had multiple outside-facing walls/roofs.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#228

Post by ceejayoz »

hans1729 wrote: post #206
jonah wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-term vs. short-term thinking. Would you rather be colder in the winter for a couple years or live in a warzone and have your family killed and culture destroyed?

This asserts that Russian aggression would transcend across NATO-borders. Is that a given? 1. Party Z invades Country U. 2. Continent C denounces the invasion of U and sanctions Z. 3. Z retaliates against C. Does an act of retaliation (weaponizing Gas) from Z towards C count a declaration of war? Because if not, who exactly did Russia declare war on? Europe is many things, most prominently a continent and an idea. Wa…

> This asserts that Russian aggression would transcend across NATO-borders. Is that a given?

Not before first weakening and fracturing NATO.

Brexit split England off the EU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...). Trump expressed strong doubts about staying in NATO (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-presiden...) and was at the very least sympathetic towards Putin at times (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44852812). These are opening salvos.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#229

Post by DeWilde »

TuringNYC wrote: post #219
DeWilde wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share the sentiment regarding Russia's fascist regime but it seems much more realistic that the EU will just silently walk back on the embargoes. After all, if the populace gets too uneasy with higher energy bills the politicians won't have any issues dealing business with Russia. And with the support for energy embargoes already falling to 32% in Germany[0] in mid July this seems like the most likely outcome. Ques…

>> Question is will Russia then attempt to hurt Europe by blocking gas deliveries like it is doing now with Nord Stream 1. Sorry for the naive question, but are the Nord Stream gas deliveries: 1. blocked because sanctions dont allow for commerce/transactions, or 2. blocked to hurt the customer (Europe) by not transacting even when transacting is possible?

Currently NS1 is blocked under the excuse of repairs. Now that could be true, but it could also be a showcase from Russia of what it can inflict. So yeah, option 2 it is.

Re: Looming natural gas shortages has the EU scrambling for solutions

#230

Post by Scarblac »

kmlx wrote: post #167
nisa wrote: post #18

To get some perspective why this is such a hotly debated topic - just got my heating bill for the last year - just a small 2 person flat in a small town - most flats in Germany are heated by gas one way or another - 700€/year with 5.2ct/kWh for 2021 - current market is more like 15ct/kWh and will probably rise. With the rise in rent prices in the last years this could push quite a bit of poor / lower middle class peo…

not sure if my bills are too low or yours are too high. i live in a large flat in London with my partner. fully electric, no gas, but the building was awarded for being ultra efficient. i used to pay £60/month for the electricity in summer and £100/month in winter. now it’s £80 during summer. winter heating involves shorts and tshirt. usual amenities: large oled, dishwasher every day, washing machine every other day…

Remember that Russia started delivering less gas than contracted last autumn. That was the moment from which energy prices started to spike.

In hindsight it was an obvious preparation for the war, making sure that Europe had lower gas reserves so that installing sanctions on Russia would hurt more.

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