Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids • Hacker News Board

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#221

Post by KoftaBob » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #168

collegeburner wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is so patronizing. you can't "educate" when people find something disgusting and saying that's "educating" is arrogant. like if that's objectively people's preferences you can't say your preference is right and therefore you're "educating" them. and there's good reason, it still smells. so no imma keep flushing it.

Obviously if it smells, you should flush. But in my experience, my urine in the toilet bowl never smells outside of when I eat asparagus. Perhaps it is a sign to drink more water? The education is also about water not being an unlimited resource. I have no idea how educating or reminding people of that is patronizing or arrogant, but to each their own.

Sidenote, if I understand correctly, the environmental/resource impact of water usage (outside of droughts) is that treating/filtering water uses electricity, not so much that the water itself is being wasted. Am I on the right track here?

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#222

Post by namecheapTA » Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

CardenB wrote: post #199

namecheapTA wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plastic straw thing confuses me. I'd like someone to explain to me how anything besides the random runaway straw gets into the ocean. I live 60 miles from the ocean. We're people throwing them into storm drains that flow to the delta that flow to the ocean? We're people in San Francisco traveling to the beach and throwing them into the ocean? Couldn't we focus on not littering instead of legislating things like s…

we literally ship our trash to china to "recycle" it (now china wont take our trash anymore). Turns out they were often just dumping it in the ocean. Now other countries do the same. It doesn't show in american metrics, because the other countries help us to be blissfully ignorant.

Maybe that should have been the public message we focused on, the actual dumping of trash into the ocean by foreign countries, and us sending it there when we supposedly recycle, instead of "little girl convinces law makers to go to paper straws!"

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#223

Post by copperx » Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 6:54 AM UTC

Kirby64 wrote: post #49

copperx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I believe they should be providing a system that proactively cools when there is less demand _prior_ to an expected increase in demand. Effectively using your house as a "battery". Isn't this exactly what they do? That what the Nest does when there's going to be a spike; it cools the house.

The nest does this, but it's not very effective. We're getting the 'rush hour' stuff right now (it's 100-105 peak right now) and the Nest does the following: * Sets the thermostat 2 degrees cooler (74) ~1 hr prior to the rush hour time (3:30-5:30) * Sets the thermostat to 4 degrees warmer between rush hour timing. Problem is, with the current heat my house cannot be cooled down to 74 1 hour prior, and even still... i…

It sounds like your AC might be of the wrong tonnage for your home. The Nest assumes your AC unit is sized correctly, although this is something the Nest should detect and plan accordingly.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#224

Post by richbradshaw » Sat, Jul 16, 2022, 8:41 AM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #129

ctdonath wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With room occupancy detection, it should start modeling likely HVAC needs - able to predict accordingly, and adjust power use & timing jitter accordingly.

Ah, that's another level of smart than I was thinking of and requires integrating motion sensors, but I do suppose that would enable it.

CO2 sensors are the most common way I believe.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#225

Post by celticninja » Tue, Jul 26, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #206

asfsaf wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating is far worse than cooling for energy consumption. It just doesn't produce the same moral outrage that AC does. Which is funny, because you can always and universally add an extra layer of clothes to keep warm. You literally don't need heating as long as you forgo internal plumbing. But there is no universal alternative to AC to cool something down and people die all the time from heat exhaustion at home.

I live in the desert and there are tons of alternatives to AC that have been used for thousands of years.you can build structures partially underground, you can use the evaporation of water to cool the air, you can use wind catchers like the ancient Persians did, you can wear different colored clothing (Triple digits is not uncomfortable if you’re wearing light colors), you can sleep during the day and work when it’s…

yes you can do all those things, but they only work if you actually do them. Which they dont. They rely on AC instead.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#226

Post by asfsaf » Tue, Aug 02, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #225

oceanplexian wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the desert and there are tons of alternatives to AC that have been used for thousands of years.you can build structures partially underground, you can use the evaporation of water to cool the air, you can use wind catchers like the ancient Persians did, you can wear different colored clothing (Triple digits is not uncomfortable if you’re wearing light colors), you can sleep during the day and work when it’s…

yes you can do all those things, but they only work if you actually do them. Which they dont. They rely on AC instead.

Just saw both these comments, and I can only reply to this.

To "oceanplexian": Note that I used the word "universal". Evaporative cooling only works in dry climates. And the funny thing about dry climates is that they almost all lack water. I'll never forget the feeling of dread and horror when I saw water fans in Madrid cooling outdoor seating areas.

Your desert cooler is an environmental calamity and they should be banned.

To "celticninja": Yes you can do all those things but not universally in any climate (which was my point) and where it is possible it's probably an environmental disaster to do so (I can't think of any city in a dry climate in the world that doesn't have a water sustainability problem). You see we rely on AC (to your point), because we've thought the problem through and didn't stop at a shallow understanding.

Jeez guys! If your climate is dry enough for swamp coolers to be effective, they're dry enough for solar panels to make sense (if you care about CO2. I don't, I'm on acetaminophen). And it makes a lot more sense than wasting mineral water (i.e. well water).