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Russian gas flows to Europe

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Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#221

Post by konschubert »

severino wrote: post #214
konschubert wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these countries are actively trying to erase another country from the map right now. The US is a democratic country so far, Russia is not. It’s incredibly childish, stupid and dangerous to pretend that these countries are all equally evil.

Does being a democracy make the US a better country than the others? If it's the voters, and not a guy, who decides to invade and take over your country, then is it OK? And while none of those countries may be involved in a military conflict right now, they've been in the past. Recently. So given there is no good country selling gas right now, I prefer to get the cheapest one. Thanks.

"Given that there is no perfect food, they are all the same to me. And thus I prefer to eat dirt, since it's the cheapest."

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#222

Post by ptr »

yucky wrote: post #188
_xnmw wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a proxy war. Russia is involved directly on its border. A proxy war is in a far off land.

It is a proxy war for the US. After all, Russia is not at war with Ukraine, it is at war in Ukraine, against NATO.

This is wrong, which even Putin has confessed. It’s all about Putin wanting to create a new Great Russia.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#223

Post by ithkuil »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #170
ithkuil wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps the worry is that if Europe collapses, we may discover some of the members actually align with Putin? That's the nature of democracy, all it takes is a candidate (which we usually label as "populist") to leverage the resentment of the hardship endured because of being anti-putin.

In Eastern European countries this resentment almost surely already exists through some sort of “Russia’s Phoenix resurrected from the ashes”

I was more thinking about countries like Italy, that don't feel a direct threat from Russia; quite the contrary they feel they have everything to lose by keeping the current stance.

I have a declared fascist father in law, and he sided with Putin from the very start (his opinions are generally an unimaginative mirror of what he reads in the major Italian newspaper he reads)

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#224

Post by ptr »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #52
qbasic_forever wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but this is Germany, a financial and manufacturing powerhouse in the world. If they decided they wanted these plants to keep running I can't imagine they would have any trouble at all doing so.

Germany still does not have a solution for the nuclear waste. Nobody wants it. All the pro nuclear people turn into anti nuclear people once their region is looked at for a nuclear waste disposal site. Recently a former conservative minister got an award for fighting against wind power which is named after a former key figure of the early green movement in Germany, wo later dropped out to figth against wind turbines.…

“Nobody” is a strong word; Sweden is building a nuclear waste storage site. Strongly supported by the local municipality. https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-approve-nuclear-waste...

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#225

Post by turbinerneiter »

ptr wrote: post #224
turbinerneiter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany still does not have a solution for the nuclear waste. Nobody wants it. All the pro nuclear people turn into anti nuclear people once their region is looked at for a nuclear waste disposal site. Recently a former conservative minister got an award for fighting against wind power which is named after a former key figure of the early green movement in Germany, wo later dropped out to figth against wind turbines.…

“Nobody” is a strong word; Sweden is building a nuclear waste storage site. Strongly supported by the local municipality. https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-approve-nuclear-waste...

I was talking about Germany. Is Sweden going to store German waste?

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#226

Post by konschubert »

vfclists wrote: post #206
rasz wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Sanctions imposed on Russia prior to this war' were a direct answer to 2014 Crimea invasion. You are repeating 'US made me do it' bullshit rhetorics, invalidated by putin himself when he got honest for once https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-put... https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putin-adm...

Crimea never belonged to Ukraine. It was in the Soviet era that Crimea was made part of Ukraine. Once an Ukrainian govt hostile to Russia took over it was inevitable that Russian tanks would move in. Why do guys like you think that Russia is ready to cut of direct control of a port important to its maritime and naval operations? When America invaded Panama to guarantee its control of the Panama canal where were you?…

Crimea belongs to Ukraine since 1990, this was recognised also by Russia.

The Russian invasion was not inevitable, Russia could have chosen a path of friendship.

I am stating facts, you are spreading misinformation.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#227

Post by skeptically »

timonoko wrote: post #204

Luckily Europe has endless resource of renewable energy. And that is peat. Finnish peat fields alone surpass oil reserves of Norway. Also money-vice. Gas generation from peat is simple process.

Saying pete is renewable is like saying aquifers are renewable. You're not wrong, but how much can you extract renewably? Any amount extracted above that is like burning coal for CO2 purposes.

Also, pete is incredibly dirty in terms of air quality.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#228

Post by konschubert »

_kbh_ wrote: post #211
vfclists wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crimea never belonged to Ukraine. It was in the Soviet era that Crimea was made part of Ukraine. Once an Ukrainian govt hostile to Russia took over it was inevitable that Russian tanks would move in. Why do guys like you think that Russia is ready to cut of direct control of a port important to its maritime and naval operations? When America invaded Panama to guarantee its control of the Panama canal where were you?…

So your saying that Germany should retake Kaliningrad then?.

Maybe they are going for this? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Reich#/media/Datei:D...

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#229

Post by actionfromafar »

MrRiddle wrote: post #166
hash872 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. 'The West' wasn't hubristic, Europe was. The US has been telling Europe to get off of Russian gas & oil for decades, under multiple administrations. Both parties have been extremely clear about this for over two decades now. 'I'm astounded at how many people continue to live in the 3rd fantasy of believing Ukraine could somehow "defeat" Russia while still avoiding WW3' 2. The US lost in Vietnam without using nukes…

You should compare Ukraine to Cuba, not Vietnam. You know, when US almost nuked Cuba and USSR just because Cuba is too close for comfort? Sort of like Ukraine is for Russia?

Right, because of all the nuclear missiles stationed in the Ukraine.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#230

Post by piva00 »

sschueller wrote: post #148
rasz wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Europe loses gas supplies tomorrow, they would: There is no IF, NS1 is being turned off tomorrow. https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/80867/ "Nord Stream AG to shut down both strings of Nord Stream gas pipeline on July 11-21 for scheduled repairs" Most likely scenario at this point is "prolonged servicing" and no gas flow after 21.

This maintenance is done every year so I don't see why they would shut it off permanently.

It's a convenient excuse to keep the pipeline flows as hostage for further negotiations. It happens every year, this year it might not come back on the expected schedule and from then it becomes a dangling carrot to be negotiated.
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