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EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

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Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#221

Post by patrickaljord »

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

> I just don't want that, because I don't want to play systems administrator for an always on tracker in my pocket.

You should stop using smartphones then.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#222

Post by blfr »

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

> I think it's credible that the interoperability requirements are going to be used to smash end-to-end encrypted messaging

Why and how?

I already use Signal to handle the plain old, almost completely unencrypted text messages. It has no impact on security of Signal-to-Signal communication.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#223

Post by ryandrake »

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

> As an end user, the things that give developers maximum freedom are not necessarily the things that let me use my device with maximum freedom.

From the article's list, even the ones that are described with "allow users to" are firmly aligned with 3rd party developer's best interests, not aligned with the end user's best interest. There was once a time when these were roughly the same, but I don't think anyone can agree this is true anymore. It's gotten so bad that I'd guess that the platform owners' interests are more closely aligned with the end user's interests than 3rd party developers. It's more of a triangle though with nobody's best interests aligned.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#224

Post by criddell »

ajaimk wrote: post #117
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #85

I really hope Sony and Nintendo are classified as gatekeepers as well because this > Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet. would be huge for Playstation and Switch owners.

While I want this to be true, consoles only exist because of game revenue. Not sure a $2000 PS5 is as appealing

Why would a PS5 cost that much?

Has there ever been a console where, over the life of the console, the hardware was sold for a loss?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#225

Post by izacus »

amelius wrote: post #46
tchocky wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using different browsers and setting them as default is already possible in iOS. They are just forced to use WebKit as the rendering engine instead of Blink or Gecko.

True. But this "friendly stance" might change if browsers choose to use their own rendering engine now that the EU allows them to.

This hasn't happened on Android so your claim is pretty outlandish.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#226

Post by kitsunesoba »

criddell wrote: post #218
bushbaba wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse they don’t open the link in safari. Instead it’s a view in the gmail app so they can continue tracking your engagement.

But the view is Safari, isn't it?

I just checked and yes, the "Safari" option pushes an SFSafariViewController onto the navigation stack, which is for all intents and purposes proper Safari. Google cannot see anything you do in it because it's handled entirely out-of-process and even uses a different container (cookies, etc) than the main Safari browser.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#227

Post by criddell »

gamblor956 wrote: post #184
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #85

I really hope Sony and Nintendo are classified as gatekeepers as well because this > Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet. would be huge for Playstation and Switch owners.

Not really similar. Sony, MS, and Nintendo already allow games to be purchased from other retailers, and always have. (See, for example, Game Stop, Best Buy, Target, etc.) Even digital downloads can be purchased from other retailers (i.e., Amazon). Thus, their in-console storefronts are just one of several options that players can use to purchase games. In contrast, the only way to get iPhone apps is through the App…

Sony gets a cut of every new PS5 game sold through all those third party vendors.

Do you think the same setup on the iPhone would satisfy regulators? Roughly, this would mean Epic (for example), could set up an app store but every program they sell would have to be signed by Apple and Apple would probably still get their 15-30% fee.

If the regulators are fair, then soon you will be able to write a PS5 or iPhone game and give it to your friends to play.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#228

Post by joshstrange »

niek_pas wrote: post #136
hamandcheese wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interoperability is not mutually exclusive with security. You are welcome to continue using the App Store.

> You are welcome to continue using the App Store. As long as apps remain available on the App Store. I wouldn’t be surprised to see, e.g., Facebook making their messaging app available via sideloading only in order to circumvent Apple’s privacy rules.

This will 100% happen and anyone thinking otherwise is just being willfully ignorant. We saw what FB did when it was able to operate in the shadows with it's enterprise cert for it's "VPN". As for why it hasn't happened on Android I think the reasons are simple. First there is way more money to be made on iOS users and secondly sometimes you wait to strike until you can knock down all the pins, not just half. It will start innocent enough, they will add 1-2 features only available in "Facebook Pro/Full/Unleashed/etc" via their own app store/sideloading but over time they will sneak more and more sinister things into their app.

Google will use the full weight of their ecosystem to try to get you to download Chrome or their other apps anytime you touch one of their sites in Safari (it's bad enough now even with them using webkit for their "browser").

This is the logical end for at least these two companies. I agree with some or parts of the things the EU is calling for here but some are just absolutely ridiculous and/or make no sense.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#229

Post by rad_gruchalski »

deepGem wrote: post #200
ParksNet wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's greed (in maintaining the egregious 30% commission for so long) is going to undermine their entire ecosystem. If Apple moved voluntarily to 10% or 15% for all, there never would have been the industry pressure for this sort of regulation. The EU would have been better to just mandate a maximum % commission for all digital marketplaces above a certain level of revenue. This new solution will get poked full of…

This is what beats the heck outta me. A company that is sitting on nearly 150B in cash somehow feels the need to pinch 30% commissions from developers till date. I understand this as an initial business model. I mean a 15% reduction in app revenues is not even a rounding error in Apple's P&L. What the hell are they thinking. The goodwill that they'd earn from devs will go a long long way and if they signal that their…

> This is what beats the heck outta me. A company that is sitting on nearly 150B in cash somehow feels the need to pinch 30% commissions from developers till date.

The rich don’t become rich by being generous and giving money away.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#230

Post by erk__ »

madeofpalk wrote: post #202
erk__ wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The near-field communication have a clear reason. Apple was only allowing access to their own banking app as a payment provider in shops. As I understand there was not even a way to get access with any kind of forms or such if you had a competing plastic card firm. That is pretty much the only reason that clause is the legislation.

> there was not even a way to get access with any kind of forms or such if you had a competing plastic card firm What does this mean? Apple is not a payment processor. The banks sign deals with Apple put make their cards available through Apple Pay, but the payment still goes through the payment networks (visa, mastercard, amex) and the banks.

A example from Denmark would be MobilePay [0] which is the most use payment solution for mobiles in Denmark. They would like to make it possible to use NFC to transfer information about a transaction in shops, but cannot do that on Apple Phones. Instead they rely on QR codes and short number codes for payment.

They cannot in any way get NFC access on Apple devices as it is now.

Another and probably more relevant concrete example of the above is the Danish Dankort [1] which is a national equivalent of visa/mastercard/amex. Again they cannot use NFC for their app. Some banks have signed contracts that allows their users to use Dankort with Apple pay, but it is not all of them yet. I don't know if there is any fee or similar to Apple pay tbh, but if there is then NFC acces should not be monopolized by Apple.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MobilePay

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dankort

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