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Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

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Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#221

Post by mgdlbp »

perlgeek wrote: post #181
MrThoughtful wrote: post #156

Could one make a lock that unlocks wirelessly via radio communication? I would imagine something that gets its energy from the outside, similar to wireless charging. So the key would provide the energy. It could be Bluetooth or some proprietary technology. So you hold the key next to the lock and the two devices exchange some challenge response data that proves the key holds the secret key that is allowed to open the…

Things like this have been made, but there are challenges: * you have to prevent replay attacks, where somebody just records a session and replays the response * lower-power devices are usually vulnerable to side-channel attacks, for example you can limit the power supply just to threshold where it starts working, and then you can infer information about the internal state and possibly key material If you look at pra…

Are there wired electronic keys? No wireless vulnerabilities, and no picking, either. There'd be something like opto-isolated data and a separate circuit powering the key to protect the lock electronics.

Edit: This concept is called a 'passive electronic lock'

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#222

Post by sixQuarks »

swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

As others have already said, you’re a huge inspiration.

I was trying to find interviews that you’ve done to learn more about how you came To know so much, but it looks like you’ve never really done any interviews. Any reason why?

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#223

Post by Caboose8685 »

cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #204
harrisi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interaction of engineering and "use" by the Lock Picking Lawyer ( https://youtu.be/Ecy1FBdCRbQ ) was fascinating - "use" here really meaning "exploiting". It's a problem many here are aware of, either by over-engineering things intended for use by non-engineers, or designing things to be used by customers when the designer isn't intimately familiar with the use. In this case it was sort of somewhere in between. I…

I can't be bothered to use YT anymore with all the ads. They're basically interactive, on-demand, corporate TV monetizing other people's content and nothing more. The world needs a co-op video sharing app and a microblogging app.

Using privacy front-ends makes the experience much more tolerable and completely eliminates ads. Then you can directly support your favorite creators via patreon, etc. There's invidious [0] and piped [1], with the major differentiator being that invidious doesn't require JS and piped having sponsorblock built in.

[0] https://invidious.io/ [1] https://github.com/TeamPiped/Piped

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#224

Post by Caboose8685 »

chiph wrote: post #209
cvccvroomvroom wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't be bothered to use YT anymore with all the ads. They're basically interactive, on-demand, corporate TV monetizing other people's content and nothing more. The world needs a co-op video sharing app and a microblogging app.

Having a PiHole on your network makes it tolerable. But doesn't fix their broken recommendation system.

Pihole can't deal with YT ads because they're served from YT domains.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#225

Post by hprotagonist »

Fnoord wrote: post #220
Quequau wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but he manufactures and sells lock picking equipment and consults on physical security. There's nothing part time about LPL's lock picking any more.

Well, we don't know what his main job is, only that he lives in Washington DC. I would assume because of his location that he works for the US government, and that this is the reason he does not want his face on video.

he’s in corporate law. contracts and such.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#226

Post by petee »

I was lucky to see a demo of the Million-dollar unpickable lock (with the square key) get picked live on stage at HOPE 2k3 in new york, in about 5-10min while they were giving the talk about how the company wouldn't actually reward anyone who picked it.

There is no such thing as an unpickable lock, its just a matter of time till someone finds an exploit

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#227

Post by amelius »

mgdlbp wrote: post #206

In all the unpickable designs so far, various (potential) attacks are enabled by the ability to manipulate parts connected to each pin/disc/etc using tools held in the hand. So why not make a lock where the mechanism can't be touched at all? For example, one that is unlocked by inserting a key consisting of only a blade and no bow (handle) fully into a slot before operating a mechanism (separate from the lock mechani…

You could insert a probe instead of a keyblade.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#228

Post by moffkalast »

lrvick wrote: post #133

I am a reasonably capable lockpicker and lock collector with hundreds of locks of every mechanism I can get my hands on... and as LPL often demonstrates, the vast majority of them, particularly the move clever seeming designs, are actually easy to pick. I have one of the Enclave lock prototypes on my desk and can confirm the machining is brilliant and I have no idea how one could approach picking this. No feedback at…

Didn't that guy stuffmadehere make something that's very similar in concept, sent it to LPL and he still managed to open it? I think the attack angle wasn't the mechanism though.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#229

Post by Sporktacular »

swighton wrote: post #44

Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.

This could be worth fighting for. If another maker uses your work to build and share an improved lock, as you did, this guy could try suing them for that, as though the basis for their work was his, ruining the spirit of openness and stunting any resulting improvement in lock design.

It might be a struggle to prove prior art but you might have enough sway to be able to find a pro-bono lawyer, and/or publicly pressure or embarrass him into compromising. Patreon would almost certainly help with costs too.

Seriously, you have a tremendous amount of credibility in maker/engineering communities, among others. Thank you very much for doing what you do.

Re: Enclave: An Unpickable Lock

#230

Post by 323 »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #191
vbezhenar wrote: post #152

Why people keep using mechanical locks when electronics is cheaper and could use unbeatable encryption?

What is the failure model when the power goes? Do you fail safe (unlocked) or fail secure (locked)?

You could put the power (battery) inside the key. Like a car key fob.
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