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US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

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Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#221

Post by sealeck »

sharken wrote: post #25
corrral wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A spike in food prices. We can probably weather it OK in the developed world, but last time something like this happened it helped kick off the Arab Spring. Abrupt, large changes in quality of life tend to spark revolutions. They usually get people killed, and often don't result in a more-liberal government taking power.

It is not a worthy thing to do for the US, people should have to adapt to higher prices as a cost of supporting Ukraine. As for the Arab spring, that never had a chance of working. Not even Turkey can deal with democracy and Islam.

Maybe for you "adapt to higher prices" is fine but for much of the world this will mean famine and starvation (https://www.wfp.org/stories/hunger-famine-and-starvation-750...)

Also these aren't just minor increases, e.g. Allianz estimate a 31% increase in prices in 2021; for people who live hand to mouth in the developing world this is catastrophic.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#222

Post by Alupis »

gretch wrote: post #43
yks wrote: post #29

The West could've ended this war by now if they just went all in on sending howitzers, MLRS and other heavy equipment into Ukraine but they keep slow dripping it, or just doing nothing like Germany. The most powerful societies in the world history just twiddle their thumbs while negative consequences keep mounting.

Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes. I think it's weird you don't think anyone involved in the problem has thought of your proposed solution, or that you don't think there's any potential negative effects from antagonizing an unhinged despot with his finger on the nuke.

> Yeah and Russia could have ended the war by now too by simply launching their nukes.

This sentiment is nuts, in my opinion. Russia isn't the only nation that has nukes folks... everyone around Russia has them too...

If Putin were to nuke a major metropolitan area, it would be the end of Putin (literally) and likely the end of Russia (at least it's current government). The unification of NATO, the EU, and the entire "west" would be so strong and unanimous, there would be no positive outcome for Russia.

Let's stop cowering because one dude threatened the entire world... the world is much bigger than Russia.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#223

Post by klibertp »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #145
realcertify wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. Moreover, it's the diplomatic incompetence on both sides that led to this war, which in my opinion could be easily avoided.

Easily avoided! OK, now let's hear how it could be "easily avoided".

Wouldn't selling Crimea and recognizing the breakaway republics as countries work? It might be unacceptable, but it's definitely simple...

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#224

Post by themitigating »

ozzythecat wrote: post #216
themitigating wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the pope, a man who has dedicated his life to the study of religion and God an expert in global politics, that a quote from him has more value than a comment from anyone here. He mentions in the article that an unnamed world leader told him Russia would get upset at NATO being so close to their border. Putin has publicly mentioned this multiple times before the war with Ukraine. Finally, Ukraine has the ri…

> Finally, Ukraine has the right to join any alliance it wants and for Russia to invade over that is bullshit. In geopolitics, nobody has any particular rights. Whoever has the bigger stick and better propaganda gets their way. One could argue that there’s no reason to have sanctions on Cuba, that Palestinians should also have the right to self determination, that America doesn’t have the right to interfere in the de…

So "do this or we'll invade"?

Why does it matter if a NATO country is on the border anyway? In the age of ICBMs, stealth bombers, and drones is the real concern that some large NATO force would march over the border for a land invasion of Russia?

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#225

Post by cpursley »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #213
zionic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m concerned the following might play out: -Russia wins in Ukraine -The sanctions were ultimately ineffective, for the reasons you explain above -China takes Taiwan during major US political unrest, at BEST destroying the fabs and at worst gaining full control of the leading 3nm/2nm etc process -A deeper China-Russia alliance, which was expedited by our ineffective sanctions now, puts the screws to US/western compan…

-Russia wins in Ukraine Russia has so far demonstrated that it isn’t capable of much on that front. Ukraine is a big country, they’re barely doing a city at a time, and they’ve only had success on a small front that they’re very familiar with. -The sanctions were ultimately ineffective, for the reasons you explain above This remains to be seen - they’re definitely “effective” because they’re changing everything, ques…

> Russia has so far demonstrated that it isn’t capable of much on that front.

Russia is weeks, perhaps days, away from consolidating the Donbas. An area larger than the UK and one of their primary objectives.

> Currently Russia has only managed to weaken and isolate itself.

Russia is coming out of this with multiple new trade partnerships, financial payment integrations and military alliances.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#226

Post by jltsiren »

88840-8855 wrote: post #160
jltsiren wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU will not return to anything, because it can't do anything on its own. There are East/North European member states that are genuinely concerned that Russia could attack them next. They advocate for stronger sanctions. And while it's not said aloud, they believe the sanctions should be in place until there is (at least) a regime change in Russia. For them, the real issue is not the war in Ukraine but Putin. And…

I am sorry, but thinking that Russia will invade the Nordics is dumb. Ukraine made sense, but the Nordics.. that is ridiculous. People will not carry this ideological politics as soon as they will feel the pressure over a longer period. Sanctions will go, mark my words.

The real issue is that the invasion of Ukraine doesn't make sense either. Russia expected a quick victorious "special operation", where the troops go in and the Ukrainian regime collapses with minimal fighting. Those expectations had no basis in reality, and Russia ended up in a major war it didn't want and was not prepared for.

If the current Russian regime can start a war based on gross misjudgment, they can do it again. That's a real threat, even if Russian military is not as strong as we used to believe.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#227

Post by nemo44x »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #131
nemo44x wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're literally asking for more death and destruction. Just think of what you're saying. Russia wins this war no matter what and the pointless cheerleading from the media and some politicians has been nothing but disposing of Ukrainian lives for the sole purpose of getting some type of bizarre revenge on Russia who they believe got Trump elected, or something. Sending more and more weapons only prolongs it and adds…

I am sure Ukrainians feel very sorry about inconveniencing Europeans but apparently they have decided to fight regardless of whether the West sends them weapons or not. At this point the West can watch them die or help them fight.

It doesn't really matter now. Russia is about to reclaim the Eastern lands it wanted and then we'll hear about "negotiated cease fire" and the war will be over and a pointless waste of lives will have occurred as well as trillions in economic damages.

Russia literally had a 0% chance of losing this thing in the end. Ukraine did well to defend early and Russia certainly mismanaged the strategy. Going at the mainland was stupid and indefensible and the Ukraine fighters should be commended. But it was never the main objective and the truth is, Russia is on the verge of accomplishing their main objective.

It's time to stop fighting.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#228

Post by LewisVerstappen »

varjag wrote: post #203
LewisVerstappen wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of moronic dismissal is that? Avoiding nuclear war should be our #1 priority. "Oh those stupid idiots are scared of nuclear war"

Quoted post unavailable.

> It's the spineless cowards like you who brought us to this point.

Lmao okay buddy.

I'd argue that emotionally-charged rhetoric like that is exactly what got the West (the US especially) into the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Charged rhetoric by emotional war hawks who kept shouting "you're either with us or against us" used to mask lies by US politicians and the media.

Note - I'm not saying we do nothing to help Ukraine. Economic sanctions and supporting the Ukrainian military is great. But the West must be careful to avoid escalating to WW3.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#229

Post by klibertp »

somenameforme wrote: post #212
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easily avoided! OK, now let's hear how it could be "easily avoided".

This [1] is a 1.5 minute video of NATO expansion since 1949. It was well understood that eastern expansion would, sooner or later, result in conflict with Russia (or the Soviet Union prior). We decided to not just poke the bear but to go cover our arse in honey and twerk in front of it with Aqua's Barbie Girl pumped up to 11. And of course it sounds nice to say sovereign nations ought be able to choose their own alli…

You're brave. I tried giving a more balanced perspective on this war in the comments here 3 times, and I was called a Russian troll in the first attempt, flagged in the next one, and I lost a lot of karma in the third. You're going to be - at least - downvoted a lot, so I thought I'll join and will get downvoted with you. The more the merrier, right.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#230

Post by slim »

labrador wrote: post #133
dxhdr wrote: post #62

Meanwhile RUB to USD is at its highest in nearly 5 years. Cutting Russia off from SWIFT has only strengthened their ties to India and China. Russia is still invading Ukraine, and now we're dealing with soaring food and energy prices at home. At some point you have to consider whether this level of diplomatic incompetence is intentional.

> At some point you have to consider whether this level of diplomatic incompetence is intentional What would you suggest as an alternative? Continue doing business as usual as if they're not murdering women and children?

Sign multilateral treaties declaring Ukraine won't join NATO ?
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