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Sunsetting Atom

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221–230 of 880 posts

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#221

Atom has been dead for years, this is just the state funeral. The situation now is: * Sublime for the Williamsburg corpo-hipsters * emacs and vim for the wizards and furries * VSCode for all the normies who just want to get on with doing their job and don't feel a need to express their identity or politics through choice of editor * WebStorm for the chads with the monster rigs to run it

> VSCode for all the normies who just want to get on with doing their job and don't feel a need to express their identity or politics through choice of editor Seems like just another kind of identity: The self-titled "normie" who glances over at the "corpo-hipsters" and "wizards and furries" and smugly pats themselves on the back about how they're so much better because, unlike everyone else, they just want to "get o…

Heh, yes, def agree, although I think that a person who is genuinely oblivious or indifferent to all this will also prob end up using VSCode just cos it's free and has the highest brand awareness

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#222
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> setup deploys to a dev server from vscode What does this mean? Setting it up so you can deploy through GUI?

On save, deploy the file out to a dev server(s) that runs the full stack (1 or more server per developer that only they use).

It sounds like your development flow is a bit unusual nowadays, which could explain why no one bothers to maintain such vscode plugin.

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#223

I know a lot of people love vscode but are there any people who have tried something like IDEA/WebStorm/PHPStorm/etc that then went back to vscode? I had to help a developer setup deploys to a dev server from vscode the other day and I wanted to pull my hair out. I'll admit it's at least in part due to not using vscode myself but I was a heavy Sublime Text user which is very similar to vscode when it comes to how you…

> I know a lot of people love vscode but are there any people who have tried something like IDEA/WebStorm/PHPStorm/etc that then went back to vscode?

Yep, I've tried Intellij several times over the past 5-6 years, but I've never really had an experience I liked. It's interesting that you mention SFTP and remote server deploys as a pain point for you in VS Code, because I've actually had a huge amount of frustration trying to do development over SSH in Intellij.. As of Intellij 2021 edition, I was completely unable to get ssh working from my work laptop to an EC2 instance; it could not parse my `~/.ssh/config`, and manually putting in the username, hostname, path to the private key, and even port 22 (because it literally required putting the port manually rather than defaulting to 22 unless stated otherwise), it would just say it failed to connect. The 2022 version has a "remote ssh" beta feature which also required manually putting in info that I felt like it should just be able to parse from my ssh config file, but it did connect and work for a week or two. One day it randomly started disconnecting a few seconds into loading a file continuously, which made it impossible to even scroll down into the file before it just zoomed me back up to the top. I gave up on it and just decided to stick with VS code for everything rather than try to get Intellij to work for the small amount of Java code I occasionally have to write.

Setting up ssh development with VS Code, on the other hand, was a breeze. The first plugin that came up when I searched "ssh" was Microsoft's own for ssh development, and running the command to connect to a server after installing it popped up with a list of my servers parsed from my ~/.ssh/config, which I could just select and it would connect (or prompt for a password if the ssh key required one). From there, I could easily open any project on my remote server, and VS Code even was able to detect which plugins I had installed for use with the project needed to be installed server-side rather than locally (e.g. the `rust-analyzer` plugin was installed remotely since it needed to run the daemon on the machine where the code existed). When I close my VS code window, shut down my laptop, and then the next day boot it up and open VS code, it still has the same files opened to the exact same spot (compared to Intellij's "scroll to the top of a file on connection" I mentioned before). I'm sure there are ways to get Intellij to work like I'd want, and I'm by no means a fan of Microsoft in general (I avoid Windows whenever possible and overall have a pretty negative opinion of them), but VS Code just absolutely nails the UX I want in an editor without needing that much custom configuration compared to what I've tried in the past with emacs/vim.

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#224

“Sunsetting” an open source project seems… unfitting? Hand it off to the community, look for new maintainers, donate it to the Apache Retirement Home for Veteran Projects, sure. But saying that you’ve decided to “sunset” or “archive” it, telling users to plan for their migration, seems counter to the notion that open source software forms part of a commons - something that Github, of all companies, should understand.

> Apache Retirement Home for Veteran Projects

Honestly, it kind of sucks that at this point you might as well call a project sunset if it has ASF stewardship, and that we seem to practically need the resources of a large company to keep an open source project "truly" afloat.

I vastly prefer the honesty in saying "sunset"; it helps bring more light to this situation, and will perhaps drive new approaches to funding foundations like the ASF.

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#225
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's perfectly reasonable. That open source software forms some part of a commons is not really a thing in practice. Open source software is ran by maintainers, those maintainers own the projects, and they do with the software what they deem fit. And even if it were, VSCode is basically a rewrite of Atom that reuses a big chunk of the original codebase, they're the same sort of project serving the same sort of mar…

> VSCode is basically a rewrite of Atom that reuses a big chunk of the original codebase It isn't true anymore then saying Slack is rewrite of Atom. While it is using electron, editor and IDE aren't from Atom.

Slack does not aim to build a superset of features of Atom.

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#226
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vim -> Sublime -> Emacs -> VSCode -> Emacs ^^^^^ I am here.

If you're retaining vim on your workstation for quick editing of files, I'd encourage you to keep an eye on the Helix editor. https://helix-editor.com/ There are three nice things about it: it flips vim's into a (like kakoune); it's got tree-sitter support out of the box (including for navigation); it's got LSP support out of the box. Its keybinding is perhaps in "uncanny valley" of vim's. Overall, it still feels wel…

Yep. I am waiting for its plugin support to come out to start really using it but I have it installed and I use it from time to time. It is pretty nice!

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself it's all about reducing the delay between "writing code" and "seeing the results". Dropping down to scp or run a script to deploy files seems like an unnecessary delay/break in my development process that I don't like adding in. If you can develop 100% locally this isn't an issue but we can't (or haven't taken the time to do so). Think of the dev server as just a VM running locally and it might make more s…

Why not pop out an integrated terminal and execute commands there? It's still within the editor and you could have a shell script that runs to deploy.

It all comes back to that "development cycle" and wanting to make that as short as possible. What you suggest is absolutely fine, it's just my personal preference (and something that I've seen help other devs) to make the "write code"->"see results" as tight as possible.

If you add any delays, any potential chance of forgetting a step, etc then it breaks my programming flow which can kill my productivity.

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#228
post #190
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron is both an amazing enabling technology, and also an artifact of the sad state of affairs for computing platforms. One could imagine a world where strong standards have been established which would allow you to easily deploy lean native applications across a wide variety of platforms. Instead we ended up in this bizzare world where if you want to maintain a desktop GUI app, you either need a large team to sup…

> One could imagine a world where strong standards have been established w And yet this didn't happen and Electron did. The "free market" of FOSS development settled on Electron as the winner for cross-platform development.

Yeah but that's not the whole picture - it's not just FOSS choosing Electron so much as platform holders being hostile to cross-platform development.

For instance, if Apple had actually kept pace with OpenGL standards, and had embraced Vulkan, it would have been fairly straightforward to to build a native GUI framework which works across platforms.

Electron won because all the platform owners basically had to embrace the implementation of web standards on their platforms. So they couldn't prevent those tools from being used to deploy local software as well.

Re: Sunsetting Atom

#230
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When this inevitably happens to VSCode, I'm sure we'll all flock to Sublime Text in droves (or some hip new editor on the block). Contingency planning for this could be a small but wise time investment for dependent teams. VSCode could very well go the way of the Do... Docker.

> Contingency planning for this could be a small but wise time investment for dependent teams. I doubt that switching an editor requires a disaster-recovery plan.

Modern tech companies love to look busy and find the most perplexing solutions for the most basic problems.

I guess they have lots of "solutions" to "design and implement".

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