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Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

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Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#221

Post by jotm »

SemanticStrengh wrote: post #125
jotm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, 1. who tf gave you phenibut before gabapentin/pregabalin? Phenibut is notoriously hard to quit. It takes at least a few weeks of gradual tapering down. 2. Together with a benzodiazepine? Wew, lad. Should've also taken a few shots of vodka before sleep for the insanity trifecta. Edit: sorry, I always assume other people have access to medication. I don't so I shouldn't have laughed. Yeah, so there are a few gabap…

it's less frequent but people can get addicted to pregabalin too.

I mean, a lot if not most drugs are addictive - if not physically, then mentally. It's all down to whether it helps you more than it harms you.

Hell, I can make the same argument about exercise - is it worth the risk of physical injury, something that most people don't even consider? I'd say yes, the beneficial effects outweigh the negative ones.

I've used gabapentinoids (and am using a gabaergic right now) to great positive effects. The downsides are there but they are minor. On that note, I have been using alphaPVP for ADHD management and am happy to report it is nowhere near as scary as the media makes it out to be. A shorter lasting version of methylphenidate, basically, and better than cocaine for the purpose.

Gabapentin and pregabalin withdrawal can be scary at first, but once you know the effects and learn to taper off, they're rather harmless. In fact, the biggest danger is in not being able to buy them because the medical system won't allow it, leaving you to quit cold turkey. Second biggest danger is from the police (illegal to possess without a prescription).

I have not tried any benzodiazepines or phenibut, but I'd bet they can be managed pretty well.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#222

Post by AlecSchueler »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #202
r3trohack3r wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got to see this side of American medicine while in high school. My great aunt unofficially overdosed on a cocktail of drugs prescribed by a group of loosely coordinating doctors. When she passed, her cocktail included 12 prescriptions. One of her doctors had prescribed her medication to lower her blood pressure while another had her on medication to raise it.

Ouch. People are really bad at handling their own medical care. I’m legitimately on 8 different medications and 3 supplements (not including vitamins), per doctor’s instructions. There is no way I’m going to any appointment (including my dentist) without a printed list of everything, including the dosages, instructions, and reason for being on it. Edit: I apologize for the poor phrasing. It comes off being flippant.…

> People are really bad at handling their own medical care.

Of course they are, that's why they seek professional help from people who have spent years studying medicine and who can presumably be trusted to understand the intricacies of the issues involved.

People are bad at handling their own auto repairs, that's why we have mechanics. They're bad at handling their own legal issues, that's why we have lawyers. Etc etc etc

It seems pretty harsh to react so flippantly to someone facing negative consequences to the advice given to them professionals. It's nothing other than victim blaming in my view.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#223

Post by bin_bash »

SemanticStrengh wrote: post #45

The world of medecine is degenerate. Sustainable, non addictive and non neurotoxic anxiolytics exists: the #1 being opipramol the sigmaergic. emoxypine (which btw cure hangover) and guanfacine are worth mentioning. Maybe beta blockers to some extent. NMDA antagonists such as memantine have side effects but are not neurotoxic to my knowledge and there are milder ones such as mg-lthreonate. afobazole is interesting but…

don't forget buspirone!

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#224

Post by jnovek »

yodsanklai wrote: post #120
shepardrtc wrote: post #29

I was prescribed benzos because of sleeping issues, but I was also taking phenibut at the same time. After about 3 weeks of using large doses of the benzos every night, I stopped taking them, but a year later I still feel pangs of withdrawal sometimes when I get stressed. It took me another 4 months to get off the phenibut and a month or so after that before my sleep returned to normal. There were months where I mayb…

> I tell everyone to never take benzos for any reasons You can't generalise your experience. Everybody is different and that's the doctor's job to assess whether the benefits outweigh the cost, considering the patient and their problems. Personally, I've been taking benzos very occasionally for 20 years (never more than a few days at a time) and they helped me overcome difficult times. Never had the slightest addicti…

Same here. Occasional clonazepam use for panic attacks which are secondary to post-traumatic stress disorder.

Never even the tiniest sign of dependence. Sometimes I go months between uses.

I am also a chronic pain patient and I worry that benzos are going to get the opioid treatment.

There was a period in the mid to late 2010s where patients who depended on opioids for any sort of quality of life were taken off of their medication without any sort of alternative. It’s something that people love to gloss over when they talk about the opioid crisis, but if you knew someone personally who went through that, you know that we collectively subjected those people to torture.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#225

Post by kayodelycaon »

whatshisface wrote: post #214
kayodelycaon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. People are really bad at handling their own medical care. I’m legitimately on 8 different medications and 3 supplements (not including vitamins), per doctor’s instructions. There is no way I’m going to any appointment (including my dentist) without a printed list of everything, including the dosages, instructions, and reason for being on it. Edit: I apologize for the poor phrasing. It comes off being flippant.…

People really are bad at DIY medical care... if only we could found a profession dedicated to doing it for them... I propose we call them, "Doctors," from the Latin word for "teacher," by reference to their role in instructing patients on the things they need to know about their health.

Joking aside, if I’m seeing more than one of these hypothetical professions, someone needs to coordinate my care. For myself, I trust me to keep everyone informed. Anyone else wouldn’t have the same incentive to do a good job. After all, I’m the one that suffers the consequences if there’s a mistake. :)

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#226

Post by AlecSchueler »

cj wrote: post #213
outoftheabyss wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, I have pretty bad social anxiety with hypervigilance. Taking on average 3 5mg (occasionally a 10mg dose) tablets a week when needed for presentations or meetings with more weight allows me to keep my job. Even such a small dose I feel restores a sense of normality that I haven't experienced in over 10 years without them, I'm able to rationalise what I want to say, conversation flows, I feel in control. With a…

For performance anxiety, try asking a doctor for propranolol. Propranolol blocks the physical symptoms of anxiety. It stops your hear rate and blood pressure from rising. It stops those uncomfortable adrenaline rushes. It stops stress-induced trembling / shaking. It's completely safe, any doctor will happily prescribe it, it's not addicting, and unlike benzos, it doesn't affect your cognition.

How can it be "completely safe" if it's affecting your heart rate and blood pressure? Those are pretty basic systems to tamper with and altering them in ways contrary to what signals your brain is sending is inherently going against the normal functioning of your body.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#227

Post by outoftheabyss »

cj wrote: post #213
outoftheabyss wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, I have pretty bad social anxiety with hypervigilance. Taking on average 3 5mg (occasionally a 10mg dose) tablets a week when needed for presentations or meetings with more weight allows me to keep my job. Even such a small dose I feel restores a sense of normality that I haven't experienced in over 10 years without them, I'm able to rationalise what I want to say, conversation flows, I feel in control. With a…

For performance anxiety, try asking a doctor for propranolol. Propranolol blocks the physical symptoms of anxiety. It stops your hear rate and blood pressure from rising. It stops those uncomfortable adrenaline rushes. It stops stress-induced trembling / shaking. It's completely safe, any doctor will happily prescribe it, it's not addicting, and unlike benzos, it doesn't affect your cognition.

Thanks but I've tried beta blockers and a couple of SSRIs and diazepam is the only thing that touches my anxiety. When I walk in public the vigilance to perceived threat is is what I would expect walking through 1980s Beirut, it's a primitive fear response that manifests through symptoms that are more mental than physical in nature - heart rate and sweating in particular are issues but seem to me to be at the bottom of the chain.

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#228

Post by kayodelycaon »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #222
kayodelycaon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. People are really bad at handling their own medical care. I’m legitimately on 8 different medications and 3 supplements (not including vitamins), per doctor’s instructions. There is no way I’m going to any appointment (including my dentist) without a printed list of everything, including the dosages, instructions, and reason for being on it. Edit: I apologize for the poor phrasing. It comes off being flippant.…

> People are really bad at handling their own medical care. Of course they are, that's why they seek professional help from people who have spent years studying medicine and who can presumably be trusted to understand the intricacies of the issues involved. People are bad at handling their own auto repairs, that's why we have mechanics. They're bad at handling their own legal issues, that's why we have lawyers. Etc e…

You’re right, my comment does come across as flippant. I rewrote the comment too many times and lost the context. :(

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#229

Post by whatshisface »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #225
whatshisface wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really are bad at DIY medical care... if only we could found a profession dedicated to doing it for them... I propose we call them, "Doctors," from the Latin word for "teacher," by reference to their role in instructing patients on the things they need to know about their health.

Joking aside, if I’m seeing more than one of these hypothetical professions, someone needs to coordinate my care. For myself, I trust me to keep everyone informed. Anyone else wouldn’t have the same incentive to do a good job. After all, I’m the one that suffers the consequences if there’s a mistake. :)

Well, going by our nomenclature for other things, the hypothetical leader of the other practitioners, by analogy to a leader in the army, could be called a "general practitioner."

Re: Long-term benzodiazepine use causes synapse loss and cognitive deficits in mice

#230

Post by saltminer »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #217
opportune wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% this. The worst part about ADHD treatment is all the disruptions of care to prevent people trying to abuse it. I personally don't give a rat's ass if people want to take adderall to go out and party or masturbate either. They'd probably have fun with less negative health effects or risk of fights/belligerence compared to alcohol... But for some reason the government (the FDA) and medical field in general cares a…

It's pretty obnoxious how pharmacies and especially pharmacists have this kind of discretion. Just put my pills in the bottle, dude. I got turned down for filling an Adderall prescription at a CVS because the pharmacist didn't like that I was paying in cash (credit card) as an uninsured uni student. Didn't offer to call my doctor's office to confirm the script. Just said oh, I don't like that you're paying in cash so…

I'm jealous, my insurance will do 90 day fills on everything but methylphenidate.
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