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Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

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Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#221

Post by tisdy-01 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #214
tisdy-01 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you simply can't reach salvation and union with God without starting from right morals. This is almost the opposite of Christianity, depending on what you mean by "right morals". Christianity says you simply can't reach salvation and be with God unless you are flawless, which is humanly impossible, so unless God does something... hence Christ.

>This is almost the opposite of Christianity, I'm pretty sure you can find some sect of Christianity somewhere that will contradict another one completely, just consider the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 interpretation vs. the Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879.

People can and will bikeshed about any subject, this is about a core tenet -- the contradiction of which, would, at most charitable interpretation, be nominalistic.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#222

Post by vmception »

neltnerb wrote: post #193
vmception wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the class kind of like this stereotype that @OverheardLA was making fun of the other day? https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ccyfo9RBcSJ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M...

Sorry, I can't actually find a reasonable way to view that instagram post. Odd, I thought they used to be viewable without an account. Assuming it's some stereotype about new age self-defined gurus, no, these were perfectly regular and generally friendly people. The situation was extremely odd, which is why I remember it. Someone else suggested it might be because the state of mind in that situation was wrong for the…

that is weird, I was able to view it without an account in the browser (chrome). oh well. hostile ux.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#223

Post by manmal »

WalterSear wrote: post #161
manmal wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Tim Ferriss ideological or a shitty person? I think he’s trying real hard and doesn’t stomp on people. His success is also quite hard earned IMO.

The 4 hour work week presents an ideology of success by being a shitty person.

Please explain why one would be a shitty person if one tried to start a business that is sustainable on a few hours of work per week.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#224

Post by manmal »

hackernewds wrote: post #166
manmal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selfishness is not narcissism. Narcissism usually comes with selfishness, but you can't induce the other way round. It's interesting that you mention that Ferriss or his guests wouldn't talk about their acts of kindness, as that's exactly the kind of thing narcissists like to talk about (= virtue signalling).

What is the boundary line between selfishness and narcissism?

That’s kinda like asking what’s the boundary between having wheels and being an aeroplane. Most planes have wheels, but as a car you could add infinitely many wheels without turning into a plane.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#225

Post by cyberpunk »

fendy3002 wrote: post #183
jackdawed wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me, English is not my first language so at times I struggle finding the right word for it. The pali word is "sila", the closest translation is morals. To be deficient in sila is to be deficient in morals, was my thought process. One example is do no harm, or avoid lying. If all your daily life is filled with causing harm, and deceit, then it will be filled with chaos and end up making it harder for you to mak…

tbf it's not your English that's lacking. It's just that translation from Buddhist term (pali) to English (or other language) is hard or they have no direct translation. Dukkha is one of them.

I think ethics is closer than Morals in this case

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#226

Post by cyberpunk »

zozbot234 wrote: post #186
jackdawed wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised. Even very realized people like Chogyam can be boisterous, womanizing, drunks. There are plenty of examples of highly awakened people doing conventionally bad and egocentric things. Unfortunately, this kind of stuff holds a lot of people back, if not dissuade them completely, from trying a little bit of meditation to improve their lives. There's a lot of archetypes of this in /r/streamentry. The te…

Such people may have achieved some sort of genuine stream entry at some point, and then slipped back/regressed into very ego-centered patterns of thinking. Regardless, it calls their advice into question. I'm not surprised that some folks are dissuaded - and I'd caution people against doing "just a little bit" anyway, if they're aiming at anything like actual stream entry/enlightenment. Vipassana meditation demands a…

So humans being imperfect, stupid creatures negates anything else this person may have to say?

The idea that Buddhist teachers should be some kind of perfect being is utterly false, and to be fair, if you ever thought so or believed someone when they claimed to be such a one; perhaps buddhism wasn’t so suitable for you anyway.

The goal is not to become some kind of zen droid. Quite the opposite.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#227

Post by cyberpunk »

colordrops wrote: post #124
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what would you say are examples of harm done by dedicated meditation practiced by people with moral deficiencies?

The term is "spiritual bypass". You disconnect from emotions, pleasure and pain, etc, see the world as illusion, and no longer feel guilt for poor action.

This seems like quite a fundamental misunderstanding. At least the kind of buddhism I practice, you never disconnect or “no longer feel guilt” or anything like this. Yeah, during Zazen we sit in equanimity with such feelings, but that’s very different to living that way all the time (which is impossible unless you’re some kind of psycho to begin with).

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#228

Post by cyberpunk »

dmje wrote: post #65

It's so typical of the rapid, results-oriented, outcome-focused world that we live in that McMindfulness has dashed into the forefront of popularity; oh look, I'll just ignore the last 2500 years of learning and sit on a cushion for 20 minutes a day for 6 months and, bang, I'm enlightened! Meditation is not about meditation. It's not about your time that you're on the cushion. Any good teacher points this out again a…

Yup.

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#229

Post by cyberpunk »

jackdawed wrote: post #110
nprateem wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get enlightened? I'm thinking of spending a few months on retreat soon. I've always wanted to have an awakening.

I'm on the third stage of enlightenment, if you have any questions about my day to day experience.

Clearly not Soto then. Which tradition? :)

Re: Emerging evidence that mindfulness can sometimes increase selfish tendencies

#230

Post by [deleted] »

photochemsyn wrote: post #63

This is so subject to interpretation that it's almost meaningless. For example, consider the case of someone who takes up meditation and comes to the realization that they really hate their job. If they then quit their job and seek another position at the same or lower pay, are they being 'selfish'? On the one hand, if they've bought into the notion that "we are all a family here" and that loyalty to their employer i…

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