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IBM's Asshole Test

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Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#221

Post by JoBrad »

ALittleLight wrote: post #209
eej71 wrote: post #67

Decades ago, in the days before uber, my employer would fly in candidates from college campuses as part of an onsite interview. The candidate would fly in the night before and we relied on a taxi service to bring the candidate to the hotel. Then in the morning the same service would bring them to the onsite and of course bring them back to the airport at the end. It was a whole curated process. Little did the candida…

I have seen several stories like this - the janitor, or secretary, or whoever is actually a trusted individual who is the true judge of character. To me, it seems implausible, more of a "feel good" story, but it also seems ill advised. Does the driver know he's part of the loop? Does the driver attend the debrief? Does the driver distinguish between great, normal, sub-normal, and bad social skills? What portion of je…

I didn’t read it as a deliberate test, but that if the driver let them know the candidate was rude, it would be a negative mark.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#222

Post by macksd »

chrisseaton wrote: post #87
function_seven wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did they do that? A couple possibilities: 1. "You're all being mired in nonsense. Give me the board, hand me the packets, and I'll show you how it's done." 2. "Okay, let's organize this somehow. I'll make a list of related widgets and gadgets. Becky, can you see if we all have the same dooh-dad structure?" I'd say 1 is an asshole, and 2 is a Team Player™

...but the recollection doesn't differentiate between these two so it doesn't seem to be the important factor?

The recollection doesn't say anything about who else didn't make it. I don't think they included the information you're trying to infer from the story.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#223

Post by version_five »

cmckn wrote: post #93
eej71 wrote: post #67

Decades ago, in the days before uber, my employer would fly in candidates from college campuses as part of an onsite interview. The candidate would fly in the night before and we relied on a taxi service to bring the candidate to the hotel. Then in the morning the same service would bring them to the onsite and of course bring them back to the airport at the end. It was a whole curated process. Little did the candida…

Hm, I don't dig this. I don't think it's ethical to evaluate a candidate's interactions when they weren't informed they were being evaluated. People are stressed heading into an interview, and may be upset afterwards. Unless they're interviewing for a public-facing role, I don't see how this behavior is relevant to the job; and discussing it with a hiring committee invites all sorts of "cultural fit" biases that make…

I agree with you. I understand that how you behave as a member of society is useful information and it's valid to not hire a jerk. Having the taxi driver as a spy is a bit like bugging a confessional though. Like you say, if they really limit the taxi driver's input to "was he directly a jerk to me", that sounds ok, but like any surveillance, it's unlikely it really remains limited to such a fixed scope and other information doesn't come in and bias the answer. A taxi is where a lot of people feel safe from observation, and may say things not meant for anyone's ears.

As an aside, I'm always shocked at what people will start saying in a taxi/uber, particularly I'm thinking of talking about confidential work stuff. My personal view is you never know who the driver is and loose lips sink ships, don't say anything in front of him that you wouldn't say in public. But I know many don't see it that way.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#224

Post by dekhn »

betamike wrote: post #118
krono wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near the beginning of a class, Professor Neyman wrote two problems on the blackboard. Dantzig arrived late and assumed that they were a homework assignment. According to Dantzig, they "seemed to be a little harder than usual", but a few days later he handed in completed solutions for both problems, still believing that they were an assignment that was overdue. Six weeks later, an excited Neyman eagerly told him that…

Hah! This reminded me of a similar story: "In 1951, David A. Huffman and his MIT information theory classmates were given the choice of a term paper or a final exam. The professor, Robert M. Fano, assigned a term paper on the problem of finding the most efficient binary code. Huffman, unable to prove any codes were the most efficient, was about to give up and start studying for the final when he hit upon the idea of…

I took Huffman's class at UCSC and he said he had actually thrown the solution in the garbage before realizing it worked and retrieving it.

When we started grad school, one of the professors introduced themself and said they thought it was interesting that adaptive optics was being used in astronomy and maybe the same idea could be used to improve microscopy and 7 years later a new phd was born doing exactly that!

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#225

Post by jjulius »

genewitch wrote: post #196
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to work with anyone who treats service workers like garbage, no matter what mood they are in. I have never in my life, no matter how bad or good of a day I am having, taken my frustrations out on a service worker for whatever internal/external stressors are happening to me.

I find this extremely hard to believe. I, too, try very hard to not get upset at "service workers", but at a certain point, if someone has a bad attitude with me i'll eventually give it right back. This has only happened a few times, off the top of my head: support at ISPs a couple of times, creditors who were harassing me without reason, and one time extremely rude and racist people at a California School transporta…

>... if someone has a bad attitude with me...

It seems pretty obvious to me that the premise is supposed to be that the driver is courteous and professional, and they just see if the person treats the driver decently, or like trash because they feel they're above them.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#227

Post by alanh »

genewitch wrote: post #196
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to work with anyone who treats service workers like garbage, no matter what mood they are in. I have never in my life, no matter how bad or good of a day I am having, taken my frustrations out on a service worker for whatever internal/external stressors are happening to me.

I find this extremely hard to believe. I, too, try very hard to not get upset at "service workers", but at a certain point, if someone has a bad attitude with me i'll eventually give it right back. This has only happened a few times, off the top of my head: support at ISPs a couple of times, creditors who were harassing me without reason, and one time extremely rude and racist people at a California School transporta…

Quick comment to help explain why this is getting some downvotes (in my best guess): The part where you say you try to treat service workers with respect but have your limits is fine / personal experience / probably broadly relatable, but the parts that are basically calling BS on someone for claiming they never lose their cool in such situations is… presumptuous and personal.

Some people really have the ability to keep their cool (for one reason or another, trained or personality-driven).

Personally, I’m with you, but, I think, making progress on becoming more like the person you’ve replied to.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#228

Post by telchior »

ALittleLight wrote: post #209
eej71 wrote: post #67

Decades ago, in the days before uber, my employer would fly in candidates from college campuses as part of an onsite interview. The candidate would fly in the night before and we relied on a taxi service to bring the candidate to the hotel. Then in the morning the same service would bring them to the onsite and of course bring them back to the airport at the end. It was a whole curated process. Little did the candida…

I have seen several stories like this - the janitor, or secretary, or whoever is actually a trusted individual who is the true judge of character. To me, it seems implausible, more of a "feel good" story, but it also seems ill advised. Does the driver know he's part of the loop? Does the driver attend the debrief? Does the driver distinguish between great, normal, sub-normal, and bad social skills? What portion of je…

That seems like an unnecessarily convoluted interpretation of a simple idea: does the candidate act like an asshole to a powerless person?

OP can report back on what the bar was, but I doubt people were getting rejected simply for being aloof or untalkative. And it's unfair in the opposite direction to try to apply the "Magical Negro" trope to anyone with a blue-collar job. By that bar -- it would be better to completely ignore the driver and treat them as a nonentity, which we (hopefully) know is wrong.

Use whatever resources are at your disposal to vet candidates.

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#229

Post by alanh »

bee_rider wrote: post #214
genewitch wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this extremely hard to believe. I, too, try very hard to not get upset at "service workers", but at a certain point, if someone has a bad attitude with me i'll eventually give it right back. This has only happened a few times, off the top of my head: support at ISPs a couple of times, creditors who were harassing me without reason, and one time extremely rude and racist people at a California School transporta…

This would make sense as an objection if the taxi driver had specifically been asked to be a dick, to test the candidates. I'd assume they have some idea that the taxi driver is a fairly reasonable person (and apparently they know him well enough to trust his judgement).

To be fair, the comment you were replying to was strictly a response to someone's personal claim, not about the taxi driver scenario in particular

Re: IBM's Asshole Test

#230

Post by [deleted] »

ebrewste wrote: post #188

We used to have a very basic C whiteboard test for junior devs. Super simple "find the bugs" test. The best technical performance I ever saw was a guy that walked up to the board, swiped with the marker to mark the bugs like he was swatting flies (found every bug correctly). He finished the test in maybe 10 seconds, where typical was five minutes or more. He sat down in a huff. I didn't know we had an asshole test un…

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