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Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

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Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#221

Post by robonerd »

IntrepidWorm wrote: post #197
sologoub wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel also uses a lot of desalination: “ Israel now gets 55 percent of its domestic water from desalination, and that has helped to turn one of the world’s driest countries into the unlikeliest of water giants.” [1] While CA is busy stonewalling desalination project that could cover 1/3 of Orange County needs and would reuse old power station infra. And not much else is planned. Recycled water isn’t readily availabl…

I'm not familiar with the reasons given for stonewalling desalination plants. It seems to me (a layman) that this would be one of the first real avenues for actual progress on the shortage. Why is this being fought so hard?

Opponents of desalination in California most often cite the cost of desalination, and the environmental toll of the energy required to run desalination plants. They also don't like the idea of putting salt back into the ocean.

Generally speaking, California is full of NIMBYs who will reflexively oppose virtually anything new, then work backwards to then find disingenuous justifications for their opposition.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#222

Post by bradleyjg »

ncmncm wrote: post #207
bradleyjg wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dams dramatically increase evaporation. Pull down the dams on the Colorado and other rivers and you’ll decrease that 50%. It’ll be good for fish, and species that depend on fish, too.

Floating solar farms on the reservoirs will radically reduce evaporation, besides providing power. The power generated can be used, in many cases, to pump water back up to the next higher reservoir.

Too bad for the fish, eh?

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#223

Post by ncmncm »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #219
ncmncm wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most American cultures were wiped out largely by smallpox, measles and other Eurasian diseases before the Spanish got around to most places.

I'd be careful with language like this. My impression is that "they were wiped out by smallpox" is the sort of thing that infuriates native Americans, because it is implies that their cultures were destroyed, a claim they very much dispute. Yes, populations were massively reduced by european diseases, but in most cases (all? I don't know) it did not wipe out the cultures. It have a dramatic impact on them, and did se…

Certainly all the cultures that were wiped out are not here to object; and those that weren't weren't. But many even of them might have been, after. We have no record of them, so cannot count them. Those still around to object are subject, necessarily, to survivorship bias, and rather more starkly than is usual.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#224

Post by ncmncm »

bradleyjg wrote: post #222
ncmncm wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Floating solar farms on the reservoirs will radically reduce evaporation, besides providing power. The power generated can be used, in many cases, to pump water back up to the next higher reservoir.

Too bad for the fish, eh?

They were not consulted about building the dams.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#225

Post by bombcar »

LBJsPNS wrote: post #61
dahfizz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't forsee a transcontinental water pipe going over well. I, for one, refuse to subsidize people who want to live in a dessert with my own water table. People should live in areas that can support human life.

Grow your own food then.

This is a good point - Californias could start buying fruits and foods from states without water problems, and everyone could boycott California produce.

This would effectively be the same as shipping water to California.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#226

Post by [deleted] »

seanalltogether wrote: post #218
deaddodo wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there’s not one water bottling plant. There’s multiple Arrowhead bottling plants, Crystal Lake’s plant, a few Nestle Pure Life, Dasani, Aquafina, etc. In fact, a simple Google search would have told you that there are over 110 of them: https://money.cnn.com/2015/05/26/news/companies/california-b... And while the amount they bottle is a drop compared to Ag, their total bottling amount equals the total residenti…

> their total bottling amount equals the total residential (which includes municipal) water usage in the state From the article you linked "The International Bottled Water Association says that about 3.1 billion gallons of water are bottled in California annually. Nestle, for example, uses 725 million gallons of water annually at its California bottling plants. But that volume is dwarfed by the 4 trillion, (with a "t…

[deleted]

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#227

Post by usrn »

bluetidepro wrote: post #77
me_me_mu_mu wrote: post #69

As a California resident I’m slowly mentally preparing myself to gtfo this state. Not only are the politics stupid af here, so are the people. Ultimately, they elect the politicians into power. It’s sad and pathetic watching the populace make poor decisions. As soon as it becomes untenable to live here I’m out. The politicians have take advantage of people who are stretched to the max as it is to swoon them with word…

> Not only are the politics stupid af here, so are the people. Well... I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that's 99% of America. You aren't ever going to escape that.

No it's not. California and some large cities are. Most of the US isn't pants on head retarded like that. Try to leave the stupidity behind when you leave though.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#228

Post by saltcured »

danans wrote: post #166
neverartful wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point should desalination plants be considered for agriculture irrigation in California?

The saltwater is in the ocean, and the agricultural areas lacking water (south central valley) are on the other side of the coastal mountain range. So it will be a huge energy expenditure to 1) desalinate and 2) pump the water over the mountain range. I suspect it would be too expensive for agriculture, which relies on artificially cheap water.

This just makes me picture big pipelines following (in reverse) the course of the natural watershed... some desal plants off the coast of S.F. or Marin peninsulas with pipes in through the Golden Gate and up the river delta and fanning out towards Sacramento and south to Fresno etc.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#229

Post by Fricken »

danans wrote: post #180
api wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't there a third option that involves building serious infrastructure to pipe water down from the Northwest? Of course you can't build things in America anymore so that's probably off the table.

Water is very heavy. The energy expenditure (AKA fossil fuel burned) to lift water over the mountains between the PNW and Southern CA would be massive and defeat any climate change progress. A fraction of that energy/investment put toward using water more efficiently in agriculture (in both the physical and economic sense) would make a bigger difference.

I just finished a trip to the Buttermilks, a climbing area on the eastern slopes of the Sierras. I was surprised to discover that the land is owned by the city of Los Angeles, so they can protect their freshwater source that is pumped and piped over the mountains to LA.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#230

Post by jefurii »

ncmncm wrote: post #198
twofornone wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we even grow a sizeable proportion of staple crops in the western US? Isn't the majority of water going to crops like almonds (as opposed to grains)? Edit: looks like the bulk of land at least in california is allocated to hay production, with tomatoes in a somewhat distant second. https://www.nass.usda.gov/Quick_Stats/Ag_Overview/stateOverv...

California grows 80% of the US vegetable crop (i.e. excluding grain and pulses).

Vegetables use far less water than dairy and almonds do, fwiw.
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