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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

blog.tjcx.me

221–230 of 438 posts

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was misdiagnosed with Bipolar Disorder for 30 years. Turns out it was Neuropsychiatric Lupus. Despite all my pleading to them to look further they never did. I had to teach myself biology and genetics while I was on disability. They missed all the common signs of Lupus; my skin, bad kidneys, etc. I am afraid all this technology is taking away all of our wisdom. Too easy to know things, very hard to understand them.

My dad almost died in the 90s because they couldn't diagnose his lupus.

Sorry. Yeah, my mother suffered her whole life with it and never new it. She was in a wheelchair for the last 10 years of her life with all kinds of issues. It was our kidney issues that tipped me off. That is the reason I went into the genetics, because she, and several other in my family have the same issues.

If anyone is interested, it seems it is partly (mostly?) caused by a Purine nucleoside phosphorylase deficiency. (PNP gene)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28859258/

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#222
I once asked the dentist why are there so many different toothbrush head shapes, with the bristles at all kind of angles and patterns, rubber inserts and so one. Surely by now we know what's the optimal shape?

And the answer was that yes, the optimal head shape is known, but since it's not that consequential this is not regulated as other medical stuff and basically everyone does weird shapes just for marketing and differentiation purposes (like colored specks in powder detergent which do nothing)

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#223
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to the same dentist for years as a child. Brushed my teeth once a day, never had any issues at all. All of sudden, during a regular checkup, he told my parents (I was ~15 at the time) that I had 9 cavities and needed fillings. In the 20 years since, I have never had a single cavity. And what a shock, he sold his practice between that procedure and my next checkup. I fully believe he was just pumping up his rev…

> as opposed to chiropractors, who are universally charlatans and frauds I take it you've never thrown your back out and had an adjustment that fixed a lot of pain?

Having spent many years dealing with chiropractors... There are two types of issue they handle. The first is sharp pain due to some, likely traumatic, event like whiplash or trying to pick something up that is too heavy or a sports injury. They can often fix those issues with limited treatment and a few exercises.

Then there is chronic pain due to some issue like disk breakdown or another illness. They can do little to nothing with these illnesses but they will not admit that. They will bill your insurance for all they can and eventually when insurance will not cover it anymore they will try to get you to pay out of pocket or tell you to kick rocks.

I wish chiropractors would be upfront about this but I've never talked to one that is willing to. I have spoken to several who I know socially who have said this is more or less true in their clinic. At least the part about being able to help some but being useless with chronic pain.

Are they fully charlatans and frauds? No. But they do take advantage of people who they cant help and promise something they cant give.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#225
Greedy doctors and dentists are the worst, because they are half looking at your health and half looking at what they can get out of you and your insurance company. It erodes trust, is highly unethical, and is extremely common in the US. We need a German style health care system in the US ASAP.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was misdiagnosed with Bipolar Disorder for 30 years. Turns out it was Neuropsychiatric Lupus. Despite all my pleading to them to look further they never did. I had to teach myself biology and genetics while I was on disability. They missed all the common signs of Lupus; my skin, bad kidneys, etc. I am afraid all this technology is taking away all of our wisdom. Too easy to know things, very hard to understand them.

My dad almost died in the 90s because they couldn't diagnose his lupus.

Lupus is really hard to diagnose. There's a reason that ends up being the diagnosis on pretty much every episode of House M.D.

Doctors generally see 6 patients an hour, and have 5-7 minutes of paperwork per patient. The remaining 3 minutes gives enough time to diagnose the obvious, but not much else.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#227
The title implies that Google is the culprit. The article paints a more nuanced picture. It blames Google for providing marketing results for a query about the validity of some dental procedure. It also shares some blame with the dentist for advising the procedure in the first place. However, consider the ending of the story. The author saw the marketing for what it was and turned to academic search engines for more reputable sources. Isn't that what we want?

I dislike Google for many reasons and generally avoid their products and services, but are they really to blame here? Google is a general purpose search engine whose business model fundamentally relies on including marketing in its results. It isn't a flaw in the algorithm; it's a feature. It's how they make money - and a lot of it at that[0]. If you want academic results, go to an academic search engine. That's exactly what the author did and it worked out fine. I'm down for an argument that we need academic works to be more accessible and digestible, but that's not really a problem with Google.

The other accused subject was the dentist, but I'm not so sure about that one either. There is a lack of consensus among medical professionals on many treatments and procedures, and this story could simply be another example of that. Medical professionals are humans, each with their own experiences and biases. Besides, it's not like the academic results cited by this article determined that the treatment was snake oil. Maybe the author's dentist had her own experience with the procedure and honestly concluded for herself that it was worth the $400. Maybe she was biased by anecdotal evidence or her own theories. Maybe she doesn't value $400 as highly as the author. Maybe she simply values dental hygiene more than the author. This is a great example of why it's important for medical professionals to act as consultants and for patients to make the final decision.

IMO, the big problem here isn't Google or the dentist. The problem is how much trust people have in those two as sources of accurate, unbiased medical information. If you're making a significant medical decision, you shouldn't accept a single source of information - even if it is academic - and you certainly shouldn't trust marketing material. Get second opinions. Do a little academic research. It's easier than ever before.

That said, if a $400 laser treatment for your gums isn't a "significant medial decision" to you, then feel free to just follow your dentist's advice. That's up to you.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31172475

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#228
post #212
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to buy the machinery, unless you really want to. You can order your own tests right now from LabCorp and Quest, through sites like requestatest.

Does anyone know of EU based alternatives to the above?

Yes, social democracy and the welfare state.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point can I just purchase old medical machinery on eBay and run my own blood tests and stuff.

I hear you can get a good deal on "Edison" branded blood test machines. Questionable reliability though.

Yes but I heard they were invented by a genius so that's something!

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#230
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care most about my car, house etc in the whole world too. The risk I guess is that being informed might make me want to overrule the experts. On a population scale the advice might be bad. Depends on how good the experts are.

So your opinion is that if research tells you that you should overrule a doctor's opinion, the right course of action is to not bring it up, not do the research in the first place, because the doctor "knows better"? In my opinion if you disagree or have doubts about treatment you should definitely bring those up with your doctor, see what they say about your reservations, and either get convinced or find some second…

Everyone's using that word in this thread: research. Watching a bunch of YouTube videos is not research. Browsing medical web sites and choosing "treatments" that are cleverly and subtly marketed to you is not research. Matching your symptoms with a TV ad is not research. We saw what two years of "dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh!" left us with during a deadly pandemic.

We're all dunking on doctors in this thread, but look at it from their perspective: They're probably sick and tired of patients coming in to their office saying "The TV told me: Ask your doctor about Provalanix!" And patients who googled "How to get your doctor to proscribe SSRI medication". And patients who insist they should go with their aunt's Healing Crystal Therapy. And patients who asked HN for medical advice[1] !! If you want to really do research, go get a medical degree and then do actual research in an actual academic institution.

Yes, have a discussion with your doctor. Yes, ask him or her if you have concerns. Maybe even get a second opinion (from another real doctor). But don't think your keyboard is going to bring you to The Truth That Doctors Dont Want You To Know.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31098263

EDIT: Right, the comment is not directed in particular towards its immediate parent, more in general at the entire thread.

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