‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#221

Post by dominotw » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

hn_user2 wrote: post #42

zja wrote: post #19

Not to excuse companies that make you jump through hoops to unsubscribe, but is there any reason you can't just call your credit card/bank and cut off transactions to a company that's giving you a hard time? I've heard horror stories about people trying to cancel gym memberships, and wondered why they don't just stop paying, and let the gym figure it out.

That stops the payment from happening. But it does not stop your contractual obligation to pay. So it really depends on the business and how much information they have about you, and if they are dirty enough to send you to collections for it. A gym is likely going to send you to collections. An online SaaS is more likely to just cut you off and cancel the account.

they can only send you to collections if they have your ssn though right?

never sign up for a gym that needs your ssn. red flag.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#222

Post by ok123456 » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:28 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #194

WalterBright wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health clubs rely on 90% of their members never showing up. If they all cancelled, there'd be no more health clubs.

They existed when people paid for most things with cash. Though I suspect their business model was less lucrative.

I'll only join non-chain gyms, and pay for the year in full.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#223

Post by cromka » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

collegeburner wrote: post #198

cromka wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were shady to begin with by pushing finasteride.

Agreed. The number of people acting like an antiandrogen is something that should be taken casually to slow a cosmetic issue is ridiculous, especially with how much I've heard about post-finasteride syndrome.

I am surprised it still hasn't been added to the controlled substances list. My allergy drug (Allegra) had been recently as a result of the number of depression and suicides reported, while finasteride can still be bought over the counter, sigh.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#224

Post by xydinesh » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

Absolutely! Once I tried to cancel SiriusXM for an old car it was a nightmare.I had to call and wait for hours to get someone. Never signup for SiriusXM since then.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#225

Post by tempnow987 » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

Interesting - a decade later - we are just starting to see some legislation that replicates what Apple has been doing on their app store (that they are being sued over with claims that their policies are anti-consumer). Long long overdue. People chose apple because regulation and developer practices on the broader web are so horrible (despite claims that there is no fraud and the focus of the DOJ on apple, billions are literally stolen outside of apple with crickets from law enforcement).

The Apple model (if followed) would be as follows:

Subscription terms in exact same font as trial terms (ie, no newspaper $1/week offers with the silly super fine print) right next to trial terms.

Required notice in advance of subscription renewals, particularly annual or other long term renewals.

Click to cancel (after login / authentication etc)

Alert to cancel on disuse / uninstall - Apple will actually suggest cancelling a subscription if you do things like delete an app.

Clear subscription terms indicating auto-renewal or one time purchase.

Cancel anytime and use through end of current term, with end of term disclosed (you can still use through XXX).

No requirement to cancel within some days of end of term or 30 days before end of term (some do no earlier than 90 days, no later than 30 days before end of term).

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#226

Post by viscountchocula » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

OutsmartDan wrote: post #187

QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

The NY Times is notoriously the worst at this. It's almost impossible to cancel without wasting a couple hours of your time. Interesting how I can subscribe with a click but can't cancel with one.

They accept PayPal for subscription payments (or at least did as of when I was a subscriber). Unsubscribing was as easy as clicking to de-authorize in PayPal.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#227

Post by kevincox » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #184

QuikAccount wrote: post #4

Fully in favor of this. I recently had to cancel a subscription that had no "cancel subscription" button and instead forced you to contact customer service so they could try to sell you on discounts and etc. No, just let me cancel and get on with my day. Unfortunately, it seems health clubs(and I assume gyms?) are exempt from this when they are like 80% of the problem.

There's a pretty easy lesson here: don't sign up for services. Or more realistically, sign up for as few services as possible, and treat every service with suspicion until proven otherwise. If you can't obtain a company's goods without signing up for a service, then seek an alternative. Services generally have two business models: - Spread a large cost over monthly payments so that customers will spend more than they…

This is a terrible solution to the problem. If there are services that make our lives easier and more pleasant we shuold absolutely be able to take advantage of them.

This is like saying don't buy food from restaurants because it may have prepared it unsafely or overpriced.

Overpriced is a real problem and the steps to make the price obvious to consumers is very difficult. But we solved the safety by mandating safety standards and labeling backed by real penalties. This law seems a lot like the latter and will make it easier for users to take advantages of services with the safety that they should be able to expect.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#228

Post by viscountchocula » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:43 PM UTC

prashantsengar wrote: post #108

klabb3 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American personal banking experience feels so shady and insecure. Afaict companies often have the ability to pull money out of my bank account or credit card, that's just the way subscriptions work here. I just have to trust they don't abuse it. In my home country we've had a national system for electronic invoices for ~10 years which allows you to receive invoices to your bank account. You can remove any such en…

Same here in my country. It feels so weird that the service provider has the ability to just charge a card in the US if you enter the three things printed on the card. That would cause a lot of frauds if it happened here. Fortunately, the central bank has strict regulations here and we need to authorize a payment by using a password or an OTP.

It causes a lot of fraud in the US, too!

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#229

Post by imtringued » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:53 PM UTC

dazc wrote: post #215

arbitrage wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are you apologising to? You're being more than a bit hyperbolic & disingenuous. I pay $15/year for a grocery list app that solves several problems for me. That is, I pay money for concurrent access, web-scraping that works, and an organisational system to help me feed my family. This is a great value to me: the $1.25 a month that I pay for my grocery list app has made my life easier.

I'm not sure whether this a joke or not?

If it saves you 2 hours per year it will be worth it even if you are paid the federal minimum wage of $7.25.

If it takes 2 hours to cancel it, it could definitively be a net negative though.

Re: ‘Click to Cancel’ legislation introduced in Pennsylvania

#230

Post by jscipione » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

tempnow987 wrote: post #225

Interesting - a decade later - we are just starting to see some legislation that replicates what Apple has been doing on their app store (that they are being sued over with claims that their policies are anti-consumer). Long long overdue. People chose apple because regulation and developer practices on the broader web are so horrible (despite claims that there is no fraud and the focus of the DOJ on apple, billions a…

If you mess up your subscription order the company can’t help you because the subscription is through Apple, all they can do is direct you to Apple. Apple also can’t help you because they don’t have access to the company’s services to make the correction. So as a consumer you have your hands tied by Apple if you use their subscription service.