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The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

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Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#221

Post by philliphaydon »

whimsicalism wrote: post #201
philliphaydon wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if a person has a heart problem. In the US it would be something like. “Died of heart problem bought on by covid”. Or “died of covid due to complications caused by heart problem”. So covid is a causing or contributing factor. In China. It’s recorded as “heart problem”. We know this because they do it with seasonal flu. America gets like 20m cases of seasonal flu a year. And like 30k deaths. China gets like 50 cases.…

Even if all of that is true, China has had so few covid cases that even that wouldn't explain the difference.

Sure they did aggressive lockdowns. Welded people into apartments and buildings. Etc. and that absolutely contributed to lower covid numbers.

But it doesn’t change the fact the reported numbers are massively censored and doctored.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#222

Post by ailun »

bllguo wrote: post #96
qwytw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it more amusing that someone can think that the could CCP be seriously concerned about the long term wellbeing of the Chinese people. Surely if it disportionately affects older individuals, especially in the light of the demographic crisis China will being facing in not to distant future (and with no social security or widespread private pension schemes and limited immigration it would be reasonable that it wi…

So if the CCP truly cared about the people they'd cull the elderly. This is the quality of discussion on China these days on HN. The idea that "hey, obviously they wouldn't consider that, maybe they're not the comic-book villains I've been led to believe!" doesn't even cross your mind.

You completely misunderstood their post.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#223

Post by lobocinza »

godelski wrote: post #29
jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

> That said, as far as I can tell it's a very unevenly distributed disaster. I think this is one of the big issues with covid overall, especially how we discuss it over the internet. It is very possible that there is a person where everyone they know around them got covid as well as another person may only know one or two people who got it and only had mild cases. There's an extremely disproportionate distribution wh…

"Zero anything" in my experience is almost always a propaganda play.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#224

Post by lobocinza »

jtc331 wrote: post #90
whimsicalism wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I think that avoiding 3 million deaths might be worthy of some level of praise but agree to disagree :)

You are assuming their reported death numbers are accurate. You are also assuming the deaths caused by these policies won’t end up exceeding that number. Neither assumptions are backed by evidence.

Exactly. CCP stats doesn't pass Benford's law.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#225

Post by godelski »

whimsicalism wrote: post #60
godelski wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There's also a lot of differences, like SARS didn't escape to be a global pandemic. I'd say that's a big difference. At this point zero covid is like trying to create a zero flu policy. That's very different from a zero measles policy.

Why? It's worked for them for a few years now and they have successfully mitigated what would have been millions of deaths. Your claim that it doesn't work because of the "nature of viruses" seems belied by the facts on the ground.

> Your claim that it doesn't work because of the "nature of viruses" seems belied by the facts on the ground.

Well either viruses typically are very good at killing you (SARS style) and so you can curb it fast or they aren't and stick around awhile until you can vaccinate a ton of the population and build immunity (measles). If they adapt too rapidly that they escape the effectiveness of a vaccine faster than you can develop and deploy them, you have the flu. Covid seems to be in the third camp rather than the other two.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#226

Post by godelski »

munk-a wrote: post #104
jtc331 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming their reported death numbers are accurate. You are also assuming the deaths caused by these policies won’t end up exceeding that number. Neither assumptions are backed by evidence.

That's exactly my concern too - right now China's response looks great on the world stage... but the pandemic isn't over yet and China rolled out an extremely ineffective vaccine that leaves their population quite vulnerable. If this disaster spreads to other Chinese metropolitan areas it would be devastating.

I'm not sure why this is downvoted. This is literally what the CCP is saying, except maybe the part about the efficiency of their vaccine. But other than that, yeah, it is in line. The "0.5% of a billion people is still a lot of people, we can't take that risk" is exactly what they are saying.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#227

Post by Izkata »

nradov wrote: post #212
tacocataco wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that there was a animal reservoir of covid out in the wild. Is that not true?

Yes most mammal species can carry the virus. It has been detected in dogs, cats, deer, tigers, mink, hamsters, gorillas, etc. This is one of several reasons why the virus can never be eradicated.

One of the possible origins of Omicron (not confirmed AFAIK) was a jump back to humans from rats, that had been infected with an early 2020 variant.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#228

Post by sofixa »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #203
cryptonector wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there were many preppers in Shanghai. I wonder if how many new preppers there are now throughout China. Of all the reasons people prep, "long lockdowns" was never one until very recent times.

I'm still shaking my head over anyone who didn't stock up (assuming they could easily afford it) once it became clear that getting infected = 2 weeks quarantine (which was the case in many Western countries too). Even a year into the pandemic people kept being surprised about the obvious.

Not everyone has the place or the budget to stock up. If you live paycheck to paycheck in a tiny apartment, it might not be that obvious.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#229

Post by sofixa »

nradov wrote: post #213
somewhereoutth wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it isn't a violation of basic human rights. It is a community working together to protect itself from an 'invader' - much as we would see in places under attack by less invisible threats.

No that's incorrect. You appear to have made a category error. Protecting against a virus isn't a valid reason for violating the fundamental human right of free assembly. And no, there is no human right to be protected against the risk of disease.

> Human rights include the right to life and liberty

Literally the first one is to life.

https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/human-rights#:~:text=Hum....

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