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The Factorio Mindset

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Re: The Factorio Mindset

#221

Post by tharkun__ »

DerArzt wrote: post #196
tgarv wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the same way for a while (this is FUN, this isn't work!), but at one point I came back to the game after a few months off, started a new factory, got to something like "automate green circuits", and immediately felt like I was back to battling some NPM dependency. It had lost all its magic and suddenly felt like work again. This was after about 300 hours of playtime over a few years, but I haven't really been…

The biggest hurdle for me getting back in is just getting past the bootstrapping phase to where you can automate the construction of things from blueprints. Luckily the game is made overwhelmingly with mods in mind, so there is a mod for my issue.

I'm with your parent. For me there was a progression.

First playthrough I was anxious to get to the automation parts. This continued as I explored more of the game, more of the automation possibilities, blueprinting, trying to make an all solar, all steam or all nuclear factory etc.

At some point and I don't know when exactly it turned. I like the initial bootstrapping phase and at varying points I just get this "ugh, really? This pre-requisite, then this, then this and then finally I can build what I really want?" and then I shut it down and play Dungeon Keeper 2 or something like that instead.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#222

Post by valyagolev »

impalallama wrote: post #183

> I used to be of the opinion that the computer game Factorio was a colossal waste of talent, burning many billions of dollars of GDP every year.... But since trying it out a bit more I’m starting to suspect that Factorio is the rare computer game to actually increase GDP. Hell of an opener that just makes me immediately dislike this guys entire worldview. Kinda also backed up by the fact that he doesn't mention the…

Huizinga, the early theorist of games in culture, once remarked about contact bridge: "The incredible amount of productive social energy spent on this game could indeed be spent better, but in fact most likely would be wasted on something way worse"

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#223

Post by averagedev »

julianeon wrote: post #20

I often encounter this issue when it comes to programming-like games. I’m wondering if I should adjust my thinking here. 1) Hmm, this game is a lot like programming. A lot like it. 2) Maybe I should just program? That is real work & I can get done more work done, be more productive. 3) [stopped game, started programming]

My experience was similar. I tried Factorio once, and gave up because it was very tedious, and too much work to consider it fun. I would have liked to enjoy it, but it's not for everyone.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#224

Post by iliketrains »

eezurr wrote: post #191
iliketrains wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me and my friend are actually working on a somewhat similar game called Captain of Industry [1]. The game is less about automation and scaling and more about realistic processes, mining with excavators, trucks logistics, and taking care of your workers. It's not done yet but we are quite close! [1] https://www.captain-of-industry.com/ PS: To my surprise, simulation games are a lot of very technical work full of algor…

Just curious, if you're focusing on realistic processes, how come that excludes realistic spacing/placement of structures (based on your websites background video/image)? Wouldn't the two go hand in hand for the feeling of the game you're trying to build?

I am not sure what do you mean by "realistic spacing/placement of structures", could you elaborate? Do you mean that in reality you would not build a farm next to a blast furnace? That's true, we did not implement any mechanics regarding building proximity to others, but that is certainly an interesting idea!

When I mentioned our focus on reality, I meant that the mechanics and processes are mostly driven how things are done in the real world and by playing the game you can even learn something new (e.g. steel production needs oxygen). However, it is a game and this can be done only to a certain degree, especially the early game has a lot of "shortcuts".

As an example of realistic mechanics and processes, you build excavators that mine ores and coal, trucks haul materials around the factory, terrain collapses as it is being mined, iron and steel smelting produces slag that needs to be disposed, fertilizer for farms is made from ammonia (synthetic process) or from compost (natural process), etc. (see our wiki for more https://wiki.captain-of-industry.com/ ).

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#225

Post by kortilla »

impalallama wrote: post #183

> I used to be of the opinion that the computer game Factorio was a colossal waste of talent, burning many billions of dollars of GDP every year.... But since trying it out a bit more I’m starting to suspect that Factorio is the rare computer game to actually increase GDP. Hell of an opener that just makes me immediately dislike this guys entire worldview. Kinda also backed up by the fact that he doesn't mention the…

> he doesn't mention the very unsubtle commentary of you basically strip mining an alien planet clean mutating the wild life into a homicidal frenzy in desperate attempt to stop you from killing their home with pollution.

People who get hung up on this are pretty shallow though. It’s such a tiring trope of “oh no, look at how bad colonialism is”. There is a lot of good stuff to discuss about the game beyond the sophomoric analogies with the native aliens.

When people are discussing things like call of duty, battlefield, etc it would be equally as idiotic to discuss “the unsubtle commentary of the horrors of war”.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#226

Post by valyagolev »

Aperocky wrote: post #25

Going to give a shoutout to https://anuke.itch.io/mindustry and https://songsofsyx.com/ In particular, mindustry can actually run scripts within the game to automate a lot of things. If you like factorio you're going to like these 2 games.

Bitburner is a pure coding factory-must-grow game. it's like your "run scripts to automate things in the game" without anything else

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#227

Post by deathanatos »

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #157
lordnacho wrote: post #78

I'm literally playing Factorio right now, with my kid. Got into it over Christmas based on HN talking about it all the time. Good game to multi because I don't have to pay attention all the time. It really reminds me of software in many ways. You fiddle with tiny little things like balancing a belt, and then move on to building belt balancers. You then move up the abstractions to where you're not really placing inser…

If Factorio took place on Earth, that would be pretty dark. But, remember the backstory is that you've crash-landed your spaceship on an alien world filled with giant hostile insects who will attack you when you get too close, even if you build nothing and never pollute. Hardly a paradise!

On the subreddit, I once read a good argument that perhaps the backstory is actually more sinister. Supposedly you're crashlanded … but you launch a satellite? (Instead of ever escaping?) The poster supposed that, what if the narrator is a faulty narrator, and in reality, our character has been sent as a sort of advanced terraforming agent send to prepare the planet for colonization or such. After all, the engineer needs no sleep, no food, never seems to tire, can somehow research a wide range of complex technology on his or her own. Perhaps the PC has simply been led, or programmed, to believe that he's crash landed (or perhaps that's even the truth, just the crash landing was on purpose, to deliver him to the planet), and programmed such that he can't recognize the cognitive dissonance of getting to a rocket but never leaving, always expanding …

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#228

Post by SigmundA »

lordnacho wrote: post #78

I'm literally playing Factorio right now, with my kid. Got into it over Christmas based on HN talking about it all the time. Good game to multi because I don't have to pay attention all the time. It really reminds me of software in many ways. You fiddle with tiny little things like balancing a belt, and then move on to building belt balancers. You then move up the abstractions to where you're not really placing inser…

I kind of like that its dark, the aliens attack because of the pollution you create, and yet still the factory grows and I clear the hives with better weaponry.

Its has some connection to reality that cuts deep and yet I want to play more get my SPM to go higher, it feels like everything wrong with modern life depressing and fun at the same time.

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#229

Post by wink »

I love programming and I hate games like Factorio where you're (to a degree) doing the same thing with logical thinking and optimization etc.pp. (I like games and I like puzzles, but this feels like work to me, in a language I hate, with an IDE I hate and with no undo).

At least this article doesn't tell me I will love this and I should play it, unlike all the others. So thumbs up for the article :P

Re: The Factorio Mindset

#230

Post by jimbob45 »

wink wrote: post #229

I love programming and I hate games like Factorio where you're (to a degree) doing the same thing with logical thinking and optimization etc.pp. (I like games and I like puzzles, but this feels like work to me, in a language I hate, with an IDE I hate and with no undo). At least this article doesn't tell me I will love this and I should play it, unlike all the others. So thumbs up for the article :P

I’m in the same boat but I wonder if that’s just because we’re programmers and anything short of perfection is time wasted for us.

When you’re first starting out, it feels amazing to input two numbers, add them together, and print them out to the console. When you’re a professional programmer, it feels like you’re wasting time if you’re not defensively coding against future concerns and potential feature needs.

Likewise in Factorio, I can’t enjoy success in any part of the game because I feel that any investment in one level could potentially be taking away from planning for the next level. Level, in this case, being the current level of technology researched in the game.

I realize that this is irrational but I surely can’t be alone on this.

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