France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors • Hacker News Board

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#221

Post by Terry_Roll » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:22 AM UTC

skhr0680 wrote: post #216

Terry_Roll wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest uranium fuel depot in the world is Chernobyl, Ukraine. Russia nearly bankrupted itself when it contained the nuclear disaster and even Gorbachev thinks it was Chernobyl that ultimately destroyed the Soviet Union. Now with this in mind, I wouldnt be surprised considering the sanctions on Russia, if they perhaps make a grab for the uranium in Chernobyl and sell it, to claw back some of the costs they incurr…

> Strategically, it was useful for Russian politics to have something as risky as the Chernobyl nuke power station in the Ukraine during the soviet union era, ie different country if anything went wrong nothing to do with us sort of thing. The same type of reactor as Chernobyl is still in operation at the Leningrad NPP

It would appear that some countries also view nuke power stations like offensive firewalls, that's the Baltic sea nations captured in some respect.

Germany's car industry and Russian Oil wealth is also a partnership I see.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#222

Post by galangalalgol » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:28 AM UTC

imnotlost wrote: post #186

baud147258 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, with nuclear you're (and in this case, we're) still dependent on uranium mines and all the equipment that's require to build and maintain those power plants, some of which might not be manufactured in the countries

Dependencies are a fact of life. Question is, does Europe really want to depend on journalist/dissident-murdering Russia?

It is even in Russia's best interest to ne encouraged to diversify their economy before they simply run out of natural resources. If there is a steady decrease in the sale price of fossil fuels instead of a sudden one they will have more time to adapt right?

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#223

Post by gnulinux » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:28 AM UTC

voz_ wrote: post #154

The idea of a power source that, when failed, can wipe out a significant amount of live-able land, large swaths of population, irradiate rivers, etc, seems insane. The risk reward factor just does not seem to be there. Sure there are redundancies. Sure there are threat models. However, everything fails. Mistakes happen, black swan events occur. What is the calculus here? How can it ever be made in good faith?

Risk: happened literally once, we have all kinds of engineering knowledge how to prevent it.

Reward: energy that doesn't destroy the planet.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#224

Post by djcapelis » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

skhr0680 wrote: post #216

Terry_Roll wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest uranium fuel depot in the world is Chernobyl, Ukraine. Russia nearly bankrupted itself when it contained the nuclear disaster and even Gorbachev thinks it was Chernobyl that ultimately destroyed the Soviet Union. Now with this in mind, I wouldnt be surprised considering the sanctions on Russia, if they perhaps make a grab for the uranium in Chernobyl and sell it, to claw back some of the costs they incurr…

> Strategically, it was useful for Russian politics to have something as risky as the Chernobyl nuke power station in the Ukraine during the soviet union era, ie different country if anything went wrong nothing to do with us sort of thing. The same type of reactor as Chernobyl is still in operation at the Leningrad NPP

> The same type of reactor as Chernobyl is still in operation at the Leningrad NPP

Along with three units each in Kursk and Smolensk NPPs. Plus I think a lot of people don't realize some of the other reactor units at Chernobyl continued operating until the last one finally shut down in 2000.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#225

Post by j16sdiz » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:43 AM UTC

The linked article is thin on material.

It is 6 by 2028, 14 by 2050

- Announcing new reactors, Macron bets on nuclear power in carbon-neutral push https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220210-announcing-new-r...

- France announces a major buildup of its nuclear power program. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/10/world/europe/france-macro...

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#226

Post by wahern » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:43 AM UTC

FrenchAmerican wrote: post #169

grammers wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Such reactors cannot be built in a day so right now this is just a political move for the upcoming election.

I respectfully disagree on that. It"s on the contrary a decision made a few months before the elections - so that the French energy policy won't be a matter of debate on the voting day. French citizens have never been put in a position to vote between a pronuclear candidate and an antinuclear one. Well, of course, there are ecologists on the first round of the vote, but on the second rounds, both candidates are alway…

> French citizens have never been put in a position to vote between a pronuclear candidate and an antinuclear one.

What about the fallout from the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior? It was my understanding that nuclear technology was a source of national pride at the time, which emboldened the French government. Public support for nuclear power seems much less enthusiastic these days. Still, I'm curious if there was ever an election where candidates' positions on the event were at issue.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#227

Post by zbrozek » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 3:46 AM UTC

prawn wrote: post #203

austhrow743 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve only thought about this for five seconds but that seems like a pricing structure issue rather than something inevitable.

I have a friend who works in the energy sector and has a strong focus on solar. He's talked about this as a major issue for a few years. I don't know if it's inevitable, but would influence a lot of industry policy. https://www.energynetworks.com.au/news/energy-insider/the-de... Early adopters of solar here had very strong feed-in tariffs, but these are non-existent now for new sign-ups because otherwise energy compa…

It's almost as if grid providers need to be competitive with alternatives. I'm currently getting about half of my electricity through solar+battery, and that's only going to grow until I'm no longer dependent on my utility at all.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#228

Post by FredPret » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 4:25 AM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #222

imnotlost wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dependencies are a fact of life. Question is, does Europe really want to depend on journalist/dissident-murdering Russia?

It is even in Russia's best interest to ne encouraged to diversify their economy before they simply run out of natural resources. If there is a steady decrease in the sale price of fossil fuels instead of a sudden one they will have more time to adapt right?

I don't think that's really a worry (running out of resources). Our deepest mines are a paltry 4km; forests can be managed. Oil, gas, and coal will eventually run out, but the prices will have by then have risen to the point that use at scale will be impractical.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#229

Post by arcticbull » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 4:32 AM UTC

Terry_Roll wrote: post #204

baud147258 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, with nuclear you're (and in this case, we're) still dependent on uranium mines and all the equipment that's require to build and maintain those power plants, some of which might not be manufactured in the countries

The largest uranium fuel depot in the world is Chernobyl, Ukraine. Russia nearly bankrupted itself when it contained the nuclear disaster and even Gorbachev thinks it was Chernobyl that ultimately destroyed the Soviet Union. Now with this in mind, I wouldnt be surprised considering the sanctions on Russia, if they perhaps make a grab for the uranium in Chernobyl and sell it, to claw back some of the costs they incurr…

There's tons of uranium everywhere. You certainly don't have to put on the lead underpants and root around in Pripyat for it. Canada and Australia have massive amounts.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#230

Post by arcticbull » Fri, Feb 11, 2022, 4:33 AM UTC

skhr0680 wrote: post #216

Terry_Roll wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest uranium fuel depot in the world is Chernobyl, Ukraine. Russia nearly bankrupted itself when it contained the nuclear disaster and even Gorbachev thinks it was Chernobyl that ultimately destroyed the Soviet Union. Now with this in mind, I wouldnt be surprised considering the sanctions on Russia, if they perhaps make a grab for the uranium in Chernobyl and sell it, to claw back some of the costs they incurr…

> Strategically, it was useful for Russian politics to have something as risky as the Chernobyl nuke power station in the Ukraine during the soviet union era, ie different country if anything went wrong nothing to do with us sort of thing. The same type of reactor as Chernobyl is still in operation at the Leningrad NPP

The other reactors at Chernobyl continued to operate for years after the incident at reactor 4. The last reactor there closed in 2000, and only as a result of being strongly incentivized by the international community. All the RBMK reactors were retrofitted with additional safeties after the incident. They're not really a risk.