This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system • Hacker News Board

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#221

Post by iam-TJ » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

FridayoLeary wrote: post #82

iam-TJ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 'nit' about your phraseology - not aimed at you but at what has become 'received' usage. I always take care to replace "users freedom" with "OWNERS freedom" in my conversations since so many people seem to have forgotten the distinction. Relatedly, I talk about "computer operators" not "computer users" to try remind people of this important distinction.

Do you 'own' the OS or do you 'use' it?

In my case, I 'own' it. Building kernel and several core packages from source frequently.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#222

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

throwaway22032 wrote: post #8

The whole ecosystem around Apple products seems to be a commitment to producing e-waste in the short-term. It's really bizarre. A 20 year old PC still works. It might be slow, but as long as it's 64-bit, you can run modern software. If it's older and 32-bit you might be struggling but it's at least theoretically possible. By contrast Apple seem hell-bent on creating this environment in which they control the software…

Yes my 2009 Core Duo 2.66Ghz Dell laptop with 8GB RAM and a 250GB hard drive can run Windows 10 fine and most modern apps. Many low end configurations still come with 8GB of RAM today and smaller but faster SSDs.

A 2009 iPhone had 128MB of RAM and 4-8GB of storage, along with a 320x480 3.5 inch display. Currently iPhones have at minimum 3GB RAM and 64GB of storage. Not to mention that 2G cell phone service has been cut out by all the carriers and 3G is on its way out. Your phone would still be useless.

But using your car analogy, the Apple //e came out in 1980 with 64K of RAM and a 1Mhz processor. 10 years later by 1991, processors were 30x faster and computers came with 40x more RAM. You now see smart phone performance increases slowing down and phones are useful a lot longer than they were a decade ago.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#223

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #215

scarface74 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing that he is one of the most popular indy app developers, I assure you he isn’t happy with Apple’s App Store policies. https://marco.org/2021/06/03/developer-relations

I well understand that he's a popular indy developer. He can still be wrong. I also understand that he's _laughing_ at Apple trolling a regulator by messing with other developers. It's a fairly toxic addition to the discussion.

He is a developer and I just posted a blog post showing he is definitely not on Apple’s side. He complains about Apple’s treatment of developers all of the time on both of his podcasts.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#224

Post by pwinnski » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:32 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #45

causi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple would not let them charge one price for App Store payments and another price for external payments.

A store cannot dictate how much you charge for a product at a different retailer, and they have no right to interfere with your business activity, and the agreements you have with a different distributor.

That is not true, at least in the US.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#225

Post by unfocussed_mike » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #171

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can be about more than one thing at the same time Indeed. Remember we live in a world where Tim Cook can say in court that he has "a feeling" the App Store is profitable, and that is apparently where it is left.

What's the connection?

The connection is that Apple don't break out their P&L for the App Store business, which clearly makes them a lot of money. They prefer to leave it buried in the iOS business.

It suits them for the profitability of the App Store to be hard to observe as distinct from the sales of the devices themselves, and it supports the interpretation that they fudge around things that make them **loads of money by emphasising other things instead as important (customer experience, "security" etc.)

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#226

Post by floatingatoll » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:42 PM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #33

But, wait! It gets even better [1]: - Cannot also support IAP - Website links are all to a single URL specified in Info.plist with no parameters - Must submit monthly report to Apple listing EVERY external transaction All for measly 27% of the sales proceeds. A total steal. Apple's really jerking on the regulators' chain. I sure hope they continue in the same vein, because the fallout will be spectacular. [1] https:/…

In what way are any of these jerking the regulators’ chain? You list four facts, and you claim that these four facts are insufficient to regulators. Please provide the remainder of your viewpoint, so that we who don’t understand you yet can have a chance to consider it and be persuaded by it.

For example, here’s a question I can’t answer from this tweet or from this entire HN discussion:

“In what way do each of these four facts conflict with one country’s regulators’ decisions, characteristics, or historical tendencies?”

(However, if your goal is simply to preach to the choir, then your comment is certainly sufficient for that purpose — so long as it’s acceptable that it won’t persuade anyone that doesn’t already agree with whatever viewpoint is left unexplained here.)

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#227

Post by dlubarov » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #69

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I buy an iPhone, I buy an iPhone using a third party payment provider. Apple do not smirk and infer that those payments are made through a provider they don't control. They take my money. They aren't just being "very clear", they are thumbing their nose at the regulator, and joyfully pissing in customer and developer chips as they do so. They are trolling the process. That is very clear.

Perhaps the 27% is a troll, but the warning screen is 100% in line with how they always do things. Just like when you run an executable on your mac that you downloaded from the internet, they warn you and ask you if you really want to open it. That's not about money, it's about making it clear to users what they are about to do, so they don't have a bad experience and are put off Apple products.

A more direct comparison would be to apps that already support third party payment methods like Uber, Amazon, etc. How would you explain Apple forcing devs to include these stern warnings when buying digital goods but not physical goods?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#228

Post by bogwog » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 5:05 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #186

bogwog wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t make a difference. The long term growth opportunities in a country are huge, and for a company the size Apple, any opportunity for growth is extremely valuable.

If Apple sold a $1500 maxed out iPhone Pro to everyone above the age of 15 in the Netherlands, that a little over $2 billion in revenue - or 1/8th the amount that Google reportedly pays Apple every year to be the default search engine on Apple devices. Growth at all costs regardless of margin is what money losing unicorns do. Not what companies do that are worth 3 trillion dollars.

The cost of losing an entire country is more than the hypothetical revenue of a year’s sales. Even ignoring the potential lifetime value of an Apple customer, that’s an entire country of children, engineers, businesses, influencers, etc who are not exposed to your products/brand.

And Apple is not a money losing unicorn. They don’t sell anything at a loss, and they wouldn’t be selling at a loss even if they made a good faith effort to comply with these regulations.

The question is what their margins look like: reasonable, or obscene? Apple is fighting to maintain the latter. Pulling out of the country would make them less money than complying.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#229

Post by CodeWriter23 » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #94

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #46

Modal before the Modal: “we are about to display a message required by Apple. We use a non-Apple payment provider that is also private and secure. Please tap Proceed to continue”

That would never pass app review.

Are you hand waving or actually tried it?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#230

Post by pauldd7 » Mon, Feb 07, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

jamil7 wrote: post #48

ninkendo wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your tech savvy, you know that this is just fear-mongering on Apple's part. Apple has a policy where every subscription model that is paid for via the app store needs to be one-click cancelable, and from a single system menu that shows all of your subscriptions. That's an actual protection that the app store gives me, the customer, and which I might not receive from other payment processors... so it's not really…

But if you're going through manual app review anyway can they just enforce one-click subscription cancellation like they do with one-click user account deletion?

Any app owner can deny that happened and charge you again next month.