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Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

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Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#221

Post by inglor_cz »

emptyparadise wrote: post #12
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

Well, the Zeitgeist of the social networks is "destroy the sinner mercilessly and crush him into dust" plus "whoever does not take part in that crushing or even advocates for mercy is suspicious himself". And too many journalists are on their social network accounts every waking hour, so it seeps through.

I suspect that quite a lot of people would support denial of medical care to sinners. For example, the sentiment of "triage against the unvaxxed" seems to be pretty strong.

(For the record, I am fully vaxed but do not support mistreatment of people who believe in conspiracy theories.)

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#222

Post by sillysaurusx »

drenvuk wrote: post #169
mapme wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an interesting comparison to other reasons why we kill animals, however, the point wasn’t a relative moral comparison to animal slaughter for food purposes but that it’s not zero cost morality wise to kill an animal in its prime.

It's not zero cost morality wise to kill anything at any point in their lifetime; from bacteria, to worms, to flies, to pigs each has its own weight on a person's conscience be it nil or hefty. I mean that. But a pig is not human so it's acceptable to me.

Would you feel the same if cats were the only animal whose organs could be harvested?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#223

Post by dijonman2 »

onion2k wrote: post #219
rob74 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and the next step would be "we're not going to treat you for Covid because you're not vaccinated".

That's different because there's no moral judgement in that position. If you refuse treatment for a condition, even a preventative one, then there's no moral imperative to offer a different treatment later. Doctors did their best to save you, but you didn't do your part. That's on you.

I couldn’t disagree more. Everyone deserves the same level of care.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#224

Post by inglor_cz »

bsder wrote: post #121
emptyparadise wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

It is even simpler than that. Someone who has served their time in prison and is now released is considered to have paid their debt to society. You may think, as I do, that this man served nowhere near what he should have for the crime he committed. However, the law has been followed and he is no longer in prison. If the people the New York Post is targeting think that he should still be punished, then he should stil…

I do not want to sound like a person who would deny ex-prisoners medical care (I wouldn't), but legal disabilities even today do not end with your release from prison.

For example, felons in the US are banned from owning guns even after they served their time.

Do you consider that good or bad?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#225

Post by jlawson »

onion2k wrote: post #219
rob74 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and the next step would be "we're not going to treat you for Covid because you're not vaccinated".

That's different because there's no moral judgement in that position. If you refuse treatment for a condition, even a preventative one, then there's no moral imperative to offer a different treatment later. Doctors did their best to save you, but you didn't do your part. That's on you.

Absolutely not, that's not how it works.

You won't be denied tramua treatment for a gunshot because your doc told you to stop playing with guns.

You won't be refused heart medicine because you didn't stop eating bacon when your doctor told you to 5 years earlier.

You won't be denied ER treatment because you were drunk when you crashed your car.

There is no rule where we have to treat all patients equally (including mass murderers) except those who didn't accept n earlier-offered treatment or who did something that caused their own medical condition (i.e which probably includes most medical conditions).

Medical care is not an exploding offer.

Honestly - shame on you for trying to sneak in an absurd exception just so you can abuse the medical system to hurt people you don't like. That's not what hospitals are for.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#226

Post by [deleted] »

dijonman2 wrote: post #223
onion2k wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's different because there's no moral judgement in that position. If you refuse treatment for a condition, even a preventative one, then there's no moral imperative to offer a different treatment later. Doctors did their best to save you, but you didn't do your part. That's on you.

I couldn’t disagree more. Everyone deserves the same level of care.

[deleted]

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#227

Post by asdff »

drenvuk wrote: post #21

I'm a full on speciesist. let's do more of this. since we're already eating them I feel like this even a more reasonable usage of their lives. can we do kidneys next please? we can basically shut down most dialysis clinics after that.

The adage "use the whole buffalo" has never really died out in terms of meat processing. There's a lot of good product in an animal and you can find buyers for all of it. There's the obvious stuff like hotdogs, sure, but even stuff like the blood is also important. Fetal bovine serum, a supplement for cell culture media, for example comes from the slaughterhouse and is extremely important for biomedical research.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#228

Post by ALittleLight »

bamboozled wrote: post #43
sydthrowaway wrote: post #27

I am not a vegan but this is unethical

Anyone care to emphasize why this opinion should be down voted so heavily ? It's ok to now breed animals for parts; However if someone questions the ethics of that, it's bad? Ridiculous...

If you agree it's okay to breed animals for nourishment ("not a vegan") then why would it not be okay to breed them for organs?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#229

Post by mlyle »

jlawson wrote: post #225
onion2k wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's different because there's no moral judgement in that position. If you refuse treatment for a condition, even a preventative one, then there's no moral imperative to offer a different treatment later. Doctors did their best to save you, but you didn't do your part. That's on you.

Absolutely not, that's not how it works. You won't be denied tramua treatment for a gunshot because your doc told you to stop playing with guns. You won't be refused heart medicine because you didn't stop eating bacon when your doctor told you to 5 years earlier. You won't be denied ER treatment because you were drunk when you crashed your car. There is no rule where we have to treat all patients equally (including m…

I think if we really ran out of health care capacity, it might make sense to prioritize people who took preventative measures over those who didn't.

Especially with COVID: if you're at the point of triage and rationing resources, you need to consider likely outcomes, and people with the vaccine presenting at hospital are more likely to survive than those presenting without.

It seems like we're not going to bump into those limits, though, so it's moot.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#230

Post by dijonman2 »

cdelsolar wrote: post #175
decremental wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are so many vocal advocates for the covid vaccine such demons? Is the rhetoric surrounding the covid vaccine so toxic that it turns otherwise normal people into people who are so hate filled, or are such hate filled people simply predisposed to being influenced by such rhetoric?

Why are people like you so hyperbolic? How is anything that the OP said demonic? The unvaccinated are literally causing people to die besides themselves. There is nothing hate-filled about that.

The unvaccinated are harmless, full stop.
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