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Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

kagi.com

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Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wonder why Google has never offered me to never show x domain again.

Probably because many of those domains are the same who contains most of their ads? The rest is a bit tongue-in-cheek but I also can't think of better explanations: Maybe because letting people block useless sites automatically means useful sites end up on top and giving the best results on top would mean users only stay on Google for 2 seconds and don't come back for that particular query while showing a mix of usel…

I like this line of thinking, that there’s something up with the paperclip optimizer. Google has always insisted that search engineering is different from ad auctions but I don’t buy it. If there’s a KPI for “dwell time” on the sponsored search results that ads up as you come back and try a different link, that would dive bomb the usefulness of the page.

Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of things: First, price point is 2-4x what I expected. Not saying I wouldn’t be a customer but at $5 unlimited it would be a no brainer for me. Related: I would love to see family pricing. $12-13 price point is just right for me to share with my family with up to six people or some such. Privacy is important. Is it possible to provide a payment system that is anonymous? Cash in the mail? BTC or similar? What i…

I agree - I like the idea and so far have liked the beta. But $10 a month is way too much unless there is something that really makes it THAT much better than other search engines. Look at NextDNS for example - they offer it for free under a certain amount of queries and for home use unlimited is 2$ a month. And it has a lot of features, easy and clean interface, plus custom options. I gladly pay for that because its…

I disagree. I would paid $10 / month as an individual.

Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are good questions, thank you. I think that a class of people, who ask kind of questions that need absolute guarantee of anonymity (I am thinking terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers etc) are: - Looking for a different thing (because anonymity is not the same as privacy) - Are probably looking at tools that cost much more than Kagi does We are not even interested in serving that market. Having said that: - Kag…

I understand the pedagogical example as a stark contrast, but this choice is immediately turning me off the product. Startups and the companies they grow into have spent decades helping themselves to data to track and identify and write clauses into their policies and terms of use to be able to stockpile behavioral data for a potential future "pivot" if nothing else. We are living in a world where it is more based in…

I understand I could have better communicated my message and thanks for bringing it up.

My point is that none of "us" require anonymity in normal circumstances of using a search engine. But we all absolutely require our privacy respected (and many people still conflate privacy with anonymity).

Kagi is 100% privacy respecting by default, and examples I gave illustrate not only that, but that certain (almost total) level of anonymity can be obtained by Kagi too (because searches are not logged, so they can not be logged with an identity). In a paid service environment where you need to authenticate the user, help them restore their account etc, it is very difficult, I dare say impossible, to achieve total anonymity guarantee from a technical standpoint and I want to be transparent about it.

I think a better sort of guarantee is exactly the one that I gave - our business model does not incentivize and sort of privacy invasive behavior.

> The commitment needs to be "we will never, never, never, ever, do anything like this"

Perhaps you have not read our privacy policy, but this is exactly what is says there, and I took it for granted. This is probably my mistake and I should have assumed that people submitting inquiry will not have read it.

In my mind "there is no need for us to do it" is a much more powerful driving force than simply stating we won't. Stating something is easy but not substantial as witnessed by many big tech companies. The reality is that their business model forces them to twist reality away from privacy statements like those. Our business model does exactly the opposite, and has a positive feedback loop reinforcement in relation with the customer (we cheat you -> you take your wallet elsewhere).

Rereading this very answer I have a feeling it will not be the most satisfying again, so I hope that with your help, we can come to an answer that will satisfy your inquiry.

Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they’re using “exponential” metaphorically to mean “a lot”. But if they’re using “exponential” literally, then maybe the exponent is 1.03.

Look at the graphs. To me it looks literally exponential until half a year ago.

or look here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29852783

Seems I'm not alone in thinking it has been almost exponential for a good while and until recently.

Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of things: First, price point is 2-4x what I expected. Not saying I wouldn’t be a customer but at $5 unlimited it would be a no brainer for me. Related: I would love to see family pricing. $12-13 price point is just right for me to share with my family with up to six people or some such. Privacy is important. Is it possible to provide a payment system that is anonymous? Cash in the mail? BTC or similar? What i…

Unfortunately we are not in the position to set the price point by consensus or market expectation but by realistic cost of providing the service at a given level of quality, in a way that potentially ensures sustainability and serving the customers long-term.

>we are not in the position to set the price point by... market expectation

While I do like the project and wish you the best, producing a product that the market will not pay for is a business model doomed to fail.

Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of things: First, price point is 2-4x what I expected. Not saying I wouldn’t be a customer but at $5 unlimited it would be a no brainer for me. Related: I would love to see family pricing. $12-13 price point is just right for me to share with my family with up to six people or some such. Privacy is important. Is it possible to provide a payment system that is anonymous? Cash in the mail? BTC or similar? What i…

Unfortunately we are not in the position to set the price point by consensus or market expectation but by realistic cost of providing the service at a given level of quality, in a way that potentially ensures sustainability and serving the customers long-term.

You will find a lot more people willing to pay with a price drop. $10/month is not possible for folks outside the first world.

Re: Kagi: A Premium Search Engine

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I can't help but think altogether they're creating a division of the web into premium services the rich can afford If I may, there is huge complexity at hand here. It is one thing to offer a meditation app for $2/mo, where its peak complexity is changing colors on the screen. It is entire different to be able to offer the entire internet searchable in less than 500ms in the palm of your hand. The ability to off…

Can you talk about why the price needs to be at the 20-30$ level and what infrastructure and engineering needs to be built / maintained / expanded on to run a search engine?

Here is a simplified example. Bing API is $7/1000 queries. Most users with HN pedigree search 100+ times a day. A single search for an error message can produce 10 follow up searches. That is $21/mo+ just in API cost a month. And we have lot of users hitting 200 queries/day limit (imposed in beta), so they would be hitting $40+/mo in API cost alone when we go live. This is cost without factoring infrastructure costs, other operating costs and salaries.

In order to have a hope of becoming sustainable you need to make a calculation that with a certain number of users you can break even.

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