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We need to reclaim our attention

theguardian.com

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Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#221

Post by jacquesm »

Apocryphon wrote: post #205
jacquesm wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe that once we reach a post-scarcity phase of civilization That may never happen. > the attention of other human beings will be the last, zero-sum scarce resource It doesn't have to wait for it to be last for that battle to get underway. > And the competition over it will be no less intense and brutal than historical conflicts over the basics of life Depending on where you live, you may already be there. It…

We were promised a future of replicators and starships where the zero-sum scarce resource of fame was given to explorers like Captain Jean-Luc Picard. We were given a present of increasing inequality and supply chain shortages where internet thought leaders fight it out for likes, subscribes, and RT’s.

Science fiction is usually nice for entertainment purposes but I wouldn't take it as 'promises for the future'.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#222

Post by Apocryphon »

jacquesm wrote: post #221
Apocryphon wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were promised a future of replicators and starships where the zero-sum scarce resource of fame was given to explorers like Captain Jean-Luc Picard. We were given a present of increasing inequality and supply chain shortages where internet thought leaders fight it out for likes, subscribes, and RT’s.

Science fiction is usually nice for entertainment purposes but I wouldn't take it as 'promises for the future'.

https://som.yale.edu/blog/peter-thiel-at-yale-we-wanted-flyi...

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#223

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

bnralt wrote: post #173
slibhb wrote: post #42

> Some scientists say these worries about attention are a moral panic, comparable to the anxieties in the past about comic books or rap music, and that the evidence is shaky. I agree with them. It's hard to pay attention to something for long unless it's entertaining. Reading a book, reading a paper, etc -- these activities take discipline that most people don't develop or don't often apply. This isn't new. The mista…

I think many of your examples are of times we failed to counter problematic tendencies as a society, gave up, and then even worse (in this case, more addictive time consuming activities) things come along. It's basically the realization of a slippery slope, where failure to stop one problematic trend is used to justify an even worse trend. Society can survive with bad tendencies. Think about 50 years ago when America…

Totally agree. When I hear the argument "People always say this, they said this before with TV and videogames", it just makes me think that people are discounting some of the huge negative impacts these technologies have had (or at least contributed to).

Just look at the overall physical fitness of, say, an average 18 year old in 1950 vs today in the US. By loads of measures (obesity, muscle strength, cardiovascular fitness, diabetes, etc.) there is an enormous degradation in the physical fitness of America's youth. I'm certainly not blaming this all on TV and videogames, but at the same time I think it's a huge mistake to pretend our technological advances haven't had other, large negative side effects.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#224

Post by selfhifive »

slibhb wrote: post #42

> Some scientists say these worries about attention are a moral panic, comparable to the anxieties in the past about comic books or rap music, and that the evidence is shaky. I agree with them. It's hard to pay attention to something for long unless it's entertaining. Reading a book, reading a paper, etc -- these activities take discipline that most people don't develop or don't often apply. This isn't new. The mista…

Except every UX decision in every big social media app is research backed attention harvesting.

Interactivity changes the equation. Limitless options change the equation.

Radio and TV couldn't tailor themselves to an audience of one, your ML powered social media feed can.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#225

Post by gnicholas »

DeWilde wrote: post #187
trwhite wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games are immensely addictive. The burst of adrenaline some of the recent online FPS' give me doesn't compare to any other feeling or experience I've had as a human being. They didn't just happen to be this way. They have been designed to be so thrilling that normal life cannot compete.

> They have been designed to be so thrilling that normal life cannot compete. Maybe today's normal life, at least for us in the developed world. But I'd wager that spear hunting a wild animal in the woods with your fellow tribe-mates is far more thrilling and rewarding than any video game. That could be the issue, our brains don't differ from our ancestors who did things like those, regular life today lacks life-thre…

I’ve never gone spear hunting but I did play paintball once. It was thrilling, and when I woke up the next day I was more sore that I’d ever been in my life (including playing varsity sports). I realized that’s because it was the closest I’d ever come to ‘running for my life’.

FPS mimic the pleasure of this experience, but without the physical engagement. It’s like the refined carbs version of hunting.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#226

Post by jacquesm »

Apocryphon wrote: post #222
jacquesm wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Science fiction is usually nice for entertainment purposes but I wouldn't take it as 'promises for the future'.

https://som.yale.edu/blog/peter-thiel-at-yale-we-wanted-flyi...

Peter Thiel is usually full of shit. If you ever find yourself on the same side of an argument as him I would suggest to check your premises.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#227

Post by nicbou »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #190

I’d recommend anyone try going a week with zero phone apps or TV. You will be surprised not only by how strong the habits are, but also by how strong they are in others. Its puts a depressing focus on how much time people around you spend mindlessly scrolling on their phones while you hang out. I have an ex who was so hooked on instagram that she would even pull it up to browse during red lights driving. We can’t han…

I have experienced it and it's truly crazy. However, it's hard to decouple the addictive parts from the useful parts. I use my phone as a book, calculator and map, among others.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#228

Post by ClumsyPilot »

DeWilde wrote: post #187
trwhite wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video games are immensely addictive. The burst of adrenaline some of the recent online FPS' give me doesn't compare to any other feeling or experience I've had as a human being. They didn't just happen to be this way. They have been designed to be so thrilling that normal life cannot compete.

> They have been designed to be so thrilling that normal life cannot compete. Maybe today's normal life, at least for us in the developed world. But I'd wager that spear hunting a wild animal in the woods with your fellow tribe-mates is far more thrilling and rewarding than any video game. That could be the issue, our brains don't differ from our ancestors who did things like those, regular life today lacks life-thre…

"regular life today lacks life-threatening thrill"

The problem is not that surfing isn't exciting or life threatening, the problem is that most jobs in accounting, HR, etc. Are soul crushing.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#229

Post by Apocryphon »

jacquesm wrote: post #226
Apocryphon wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://som.yale.edu/blog/peter-thiel-at-yale-we-wanted-flyi...

Peter Thiel is usually full of shit. If you ever find yourself on the same side of an argument as him I would suggest to check your premises.

I was referencing/satirizing a well-known quote and am not a Thiel fan, please calm down

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#230

Post by gnicholas »

redmaverickclon wrote: post #147
moonchrome wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this talk about "algorithmic feedback loops" is overselling the quality of said algos (eg. I get more interesting suggestions when I open YT incognito then I do when I'm signed in, I have to scroll through a bunch of stuff I have 0 interest on FB when I open it, etc.) and their importance. It's completely missing the actual attention grabbing factor here - there's a huge amount of content for consumption on deman…

I am not sure. This is just a data point of 1. I used to browse Instagram casually. Like, once is a blue moon. I would see updates from my network and spend a few mins here and there. This was probably like over year or two back. (not 100% sure) And then a few months back I just could not take my eyes off of Instagram reels. This feature wasn't there before I think. I was just completely hooked. It was pretty interes…

I go on Facebook about once a month. I’ve noticed that Facebook’s friend recommendation engine now sprinkles in some beautiful women, with whom I have no friends in common. I don’t know if someone tuned the algorithm this way, or if it tuned itself. It feels like the desperate move of a platform that realizes it’s losing control of someone.
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