Live data from Hacker News

Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

macrumors.com

221–230 of 272 posts

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bonus is a bonus. Presumably this is on top of whatever they had before, so an extra $20K to $45K per year is icing on the cake. In reality, most engineers aren't bouncing around from company to company every year trying to squeeze every last dollar out of their compensation. The strategy works well for a few iterations in early careers, but eventually it starts becoming counter-productive. If you have 10 jobs in 1…

> If you have 10 jobs in 10 years on your resume, every hiring manager who sees it will instantly recognize that you're a job hopper who isn't likely to stay longer than a year. HMs in small companies, maybe, in big companies , they dont care, they are paid to bring talent in, they don't get penalized if an employee quits after a year. > This provides the chance to accomplish bigger things, build .... I have seen you…

> HMs in small companies, maybe, in big companies , they don't care, they are paid to bring talent in,

You're confusing recruiters for line managers. HM == Hiring Manager == the person who's trying to build a team to accomplish a project, and at large companies most likely a multi-year roadmap.

They absolutely care about people staying a long time - it is expensive to train people on the internals of each company. At a FAANG++ company, you get your first code checked in in your first week, but it takes a YEAR to be truly productive where you are fully autonomous, and have paid off the initial ramp-up period.

> I have seen your other comments along the same line, is mostly wrong, at least here in the US, is always business

According to you. Not everyone's focus is 100% financial-based. Do I want to maximize my earning potential? Of course. But work is also 1/3 of my life. Another 1/3 is sleep. They money is for the last 3rd. So is my entire focus on 1/3 of my life to make the other waking 3rd to be as lucrative as possible? I think that's one way to approach it, but I think that's extremely short-sighted and unfulfilling.

I want my work to be meaningful, challenging, interesting, and impactful. At this point in my career I can control all this by finding workplaces, coworkers, and projects that match my skillset and my impact, and I can realize this. This means committing to multi-year plans to achieve something significant. (In the olden days we would have called this a "legacy", and I suppose that's still appropriate to some degree, though I don't expect to get a plaque on a bridge for it).

I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me. It's also part of the hacker and startup ethos - to make an actual dent in the universe.

Your attitude is very cynical, and while I agree with you that you don't owe anything to the capitalist system that is cynical about using you, that doesn't mean seeking money is the only way.

> lots of companies don't have enough "senior positions" or all the next level positions are covered

Absolutely not true. All the FAANG++ companies do promotions based on accomplishments and achievements, not a quota of budget or availability of folks at the next level.

> Also, managers see people who are afraid to leave, or "loyal" to the company as people then can squeeze more work out of.

Not the case. These managers exist, but they're not the majority. Most people who go into management genuinely care about people, and are interested in developing them. They'd like to reward loyalty. Unfortunately the aforementioned capitalist system does not permit this, but on an individual level managers are human beings with usually more empathy than IC's (out of necessity).

> "Anything big" like what?

A major software project that takes a team of people several years to accomplish.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#222
post #141
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops? I remember seeing a slide a while back (2017ish) where 70% of Apple's revenue was from iPhones, 5% from iPads and 2% from Macs. No way in hell do they consider that a big growth market.

Apple Silicon

Laptops didn’t shrink to such a tiny part of Apple’s revenue because of poor performance, Apple is at its core a consumer electronics company, and the paradigm for what devices consumers mainly use shifted with the times.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived here for 12 years and I can tell you that you are totally right -- it's very dull and suburban and also well maintained. It's practically a company town. The Mayor couldn't even name the second biggest employer in town after Apple. I think it's actually Amazon.

Of course, the people who live in Cupertino all hate Apple because they’re retirees and hate the traffic, think male tech employees will molest their children and hire prostitutes[1], cell phones will give them cancer, tech employees are too poor due to not yet being millionaires, etc. * actual quote from current city council member

Oh yes I'm aware of our racist, ageist, and elitist city council, but it's mostly a reflection of the population. Only 12% of Apple employees actually live here. Although it's changing as the old people die and the only people who can afford their houses are current tech workers, but sadly, most of those current tech workers either don't vote or can't vote (lots of immigrants).

This city would be a lot different if we granted the right to vote to all of our resident non-citizens, which I think we absolutely should do. They live here and pay taxes. They should have a voice.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, can't pay someone market rate because that would be going out of band. While at the same time, people who come in as "headline" hires from external are given not nearly such scrutiny and instead get $Ms and hiring bonuses and directorships. This seems like a common, growing problem in BigTech: It's often easier to interview and get L+1 at another company than it is to get promoted from L to L+1. Hell, it's pro…

This have been so far my experience. The L5 on my team, was L5(L4 at Google scale) at Amazon, couldn't get the promo, then interviewed with us , and got L5 with TC at the top of the bracket. I know is just one data point, but I have heard of similar stories.

That could also be based on a difference of expectations in skills for a job family at Google vs. Amazon.

An Amazon Sr. SDE (L6) is expected to have strong leadership skills, which means interpersonal tech lead abilities - including mentorship of others, communication with stakeholders, etc.

This person may not have had the abilities or interest in having this so they went to Google which seems to focus exclusively on leetcode-esque abilities. (My data is ~5 years stale, but I interviewed with Google a few years back and didn't get a SINGLE "behavioural" interview question, or anything about my prior experience. It was 100% "solve this problem on a whiteboard").

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to one of a dozen or so privileged colleges that FAANGs almost exclusively hire from. Or more realistically, know someone who is already at one of those companies and can vouch for you and get your resume looked at by a recruiter. After that it's mostly a matter of how well you can handle a high pressure tech interview loop.

it's really not like that. I got interviews from both FAANGs I applied to last time. I went to a no name school, worked at a no name company, and had no referrals. the interviews are challenging, but it's no secret what you'll be evaluated on.

Yeah, I just hit 4YOE. Been working mostly with early stage companies and learning a lot, but it's time to buy a house and lever up - hence time to enter the leetcode gulag for a while and earnestly see if I can pass a FAANG interview screen.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#227
The comments talking about the amount not being enough etc is what I really hate about this place. The amount of money referenced can be life changing for a lot of people and even the concept of getting a bonus for many people is just not part of their reality. If you don’t keep your feet, this place can very easily make the ordinary developer feel like they’re doing something wrong in their career and question why they also aren’t earning exorbitant amounts of money. Not that I’m projecting!

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#228
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interview 50% or more of the senior engineers we (A YC-backed company that is post-IPO and still growing rapidly) hire. I assure you that our interview process for engineers at this level is weighted towards significant involvement in projects. We consider it unacceptable if all the projects a candidate wants to talk about "began before I was hired, and shipped after I left." And that's what you get if you are an a…

> major multi-year project I'm not sure what company you're at but there is certainly not a multi-year project in any I've worked at. There are long term _product_ roadmaps but in order to stay agile you never commit to something as big as a multi-year project. There are only individual features that get committed to. Even in core infra (heavily technical) where needs and solutions are known committed work goes out a…

are you not involved in the product roadmap and how that gets translated into the individual, smaller projects that get you there? then you may not be as senior as you think ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#229
post #227

The comments talking about the amount not being enough etc is what I really hate about this place. The amount of money referenced can be life changing for a lot of people and even the concept of getting a bonus for many people is just not part of their reality. If you don’t keep your feet, this place can very easily make the ordinary developer feel like they’re doing something wrong in their career and question why t…

You make a good point, but I think having open and honest discussion around compensation is better than having that conversation slip behind closed doors. I've always admired the software engineering field - it stands out from Investment Bankers, Doctors, and Lawyers as a highly paid profession with a culture of compensation transparency.

Re: Some Apple engineers rewarded up to $180k in stock bonuses as incentive to stay

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perception is that everyone knows job hopping is normal and companies will be happy to have you for that 1-2 years if you’re good. It’s not a black mark on your resume. For me a questionable resume is someone who spent the past 20 years at Accenture or something. Signals possibility of being too entrenched in those habits to make a contribution in a new environment.

It depends on how big the things you're building are. If you have an influence in direction-setting, policy, procedures, norms, even company culture, if you're involved in large projects that take time, then 1-2 years might not be enough. Certainly not 1 year. If you're in a large organization, it takes many months to just build the relationships enough to accomplish bigger things. Jumping around every 1-2 years is f…

> Beware of senior engineers who job hop.

I think this is a bit too much of a generalization. I would caveat this with "understand what you're hiring for".

In some cases, you need a specialist to come in and laser-focus on a problem, and then maybe someone who won't be with you for long, but will tackle those problems, is just fine - and even what you really want: no seat-warming, just get it done and get out.

But if you're hiring someone to lead a long-lived team working on big projects, then your point stands.

Post reply on HN