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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

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Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#221

Post by therealdrag0 »

mandmandam wrote: post #198
therealdrag0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate?

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The…

30k? Fwiw I think your stats are way outdated. That was like 1999.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#222

Post by mandmandam »

tsol wrote: post #219
kelseyfrog wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost? It was dismantled and it was done with intent. Let us not forget the people who did it and how they did it. "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families." - Margaret Thatcher It's much harder to build something than it is to tear it down.

How did Thatcher make it so Americans don't really bother to know their neighbors anymore(can your believe people used to borrow a cup of sugar from their neighbors-- now I feel like that'd make be seen as crazy)? How did she make it so that people feel like calling is weird and people should just text(and dropping by unannounced is just annoying, even if your a friend, which in the past was considered an occasion to…

I believe Thatcher was used there as an example of the prototypical predatory neo-cunt, sucking value out of the common good and funneling it into privatized friends hands in a most-vicious negative feedback loop.

In America, Reagan did a lot of the same shit; as did daddy Bush, Clinton, W, Obama, Trump and now Biden. There is bipartisan corporate oligarchy kleptocracy, and the Brits have caught up by defanging any people power in the Labour party via vile smear campaigns.

In both countries the tactics are the same - buy the media, the police, and the politicians. Sell weapons to the worlds worst regimes. Deregulate finance and environmental protections, subsidize fossil fuel bastards, and privatize healthcare and every other common nationalized good from water to waste.

The widespread fear and distrust and doubt you speak of is spread through the media with full intent by these people, so as to get away with more shit more easily.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#223

Post by therealdrag0 »

harambae wrote: post #210
mandmandam wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The…

>The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize Without diminishing how incredibly unequal/bimodal some areas of America are, I wonder if the second part of this statement is statistically backed up. When I was poor I frequently interacted with different people waiting for the bus, riding the subway, hanging out outside the mobile home park drinking, etc. Now, borderline-rich…

This is my impression also, that lower incomes are more social and community involved (church etc).

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#224

Post by mandmandam »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #221
mandmandam wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The…

30k? Fwiw I think your stats are way outdated. That was like 1999.

You may well think so, but no.

Median income was $31,133 in 2019, according to the Census.

Hence my point.

Edit for the response below: Median income is not the same as median household income.

Edit for the edited response: Sure, median wage in real terms is $35k, a whole 4k more annually.

Keep in mind though that 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week; "the most overworked developed nation in the world". That's not out of choice, that's out of fear, propaganda and necessity.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#225

Post by tsol »

schnevets wrote: post #26
treeman79 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did work from home for many years. Decided to back to office after I had mostly convinced myself that the people in zoom calls were just figments of my imagination.

Ha, I can relate to this. As someone who has worked remote for 5 years, I have had dreams of interacting with co-workers that I have never met face-to-face.

Ever notice how rare computer screens and phones are in dreams? At least for me. Even during periods where I'm using then near constantly while awake. It's like the brain isn't made to focus on that during dreaming

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#226

Post by therealdrag0 »

mandmandam wrote: post #198
therealdrag0 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate?

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The…

Also just because a certain subset of the population doesn't have various aspects of the suggestion doesn't mean the suggestion is invalid, or that the spirit of the suggestion, literally "go out", isn't even more broadly applicable. I might even say that your suggestion that lower income people at large can't "go out and do things" is what is disconnected from reality.

> This isn't flamebait

It kinda feels like you're looking to nit-pick/fight though.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#227

Post by therealdrag0 »

mandmandam wrote: post #224
therealdrag0 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30k? Fwiw I think your stats are way outdated. That was like 1999.

You may well think so, but no. Median income was $31,133 in 2019, according to the Census. Hence my point. Edit for the response below: Median income is not the same as median household income. Edit for the edited response: Sure, median wage in real terms is $35k, a whole 4k more annually. Keep in mind though that 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week; "the most overworked…

How about a source? https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/demo/p60-27...

> Median household income was $67,521 in 2020

Maybe you're thinking per-capita, which is in the 30s? But that unfortunately includes children, so not exactly what most people would think "Per capita income is the mean income computed for every man, woman, and child in a particular group including those living in group quarters."

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#228

Post by mandmandam »

harambae wrote: post #210
mandmandam wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many neighborhoods in America that don't have coffee shops, at all. And many that you wouldn't want to be caught dead cycling around in on a pushbike. On a broader scale, the median wage in America is only ~30k, while the cost of rent and basics far outpaces any increase in wages. So the idea that people would use the time off from their excessive working lives to go hiking is actually a bit insulting. The…

>The reality is that poverty amplifies loneliness while reducing the ability to socialize Without diminishing how incredibly unequal/bimodal some areas of America are, I wonder if the second part of this statement is statistically backed up. When I was poor I frequently interacted with different people waiting for the bus, riding the subway, hanging out outside the mobile home park drinking, etc. Now, borderline-rich…

The pandemic has affected the poor's ability to socialize far, far more than the wealthy. Your examples are each of choices you make that poor people do not have.

The stats aren't mixed, they're "u shaped" according to your link. Again, the difference is that the wealthy are lonely by choice; the poor by lack of options.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#229

Post by kelseyfrog »

tsol wrote: post #219
kelseyfrog wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost? It was dismantled and it was done with intent. Let us not forget the people who did it and how they did it. "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families." - Margaret Thatcher It's much harder to build something than it is to tear it down.

How did Thatcher make it so Americans don't really bother to know their neighbors anymore(can your believe people used to borrow a cup of sugar from their neighbors-- now I feel like that'd make be seen as crazy)? How did she make it so that people feel like calling is weird and people should just text(and dropping by unannounced is just annoying, even if your a friend, which in the past was considered an occasion to…

Please don't mistake my including that quote as asserting that Thatcher single-handedly lowered social trust. I used it as an example that sums up a broader ideological goal of a larger group of people. We both agree on the implications of such a change. Maybe you agree that some people pushed for systems which resulted in this conclusion and some occurred by other factors?

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#230

Post by jollybean »

panaffa wrote: post #78
jollybean wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key insight in your comment is that adulthood takes a kind of social maturity and that we have crashed a lot of institutions that have developed over centuries and millennia, and that people (including everyone) don't quite yet fathom the degree to which they were a part of the social fabric. I wish education and homes were a bit less expensive, I feel a bit for Gen Y/Z as they've been through 2 existenti…

I used to read the newspaper everyday and cared about societal issues. After this pandemic & the response to it, I've lost all faith and excitement about society. My loneliness will only get worse

The 'newspaper' is not a source of social issues, it's all political, particularly in the US.

Your community is.

Also, the global response to the pandemic has been the most amazing thing in human history: we have never been so rapid and coordinated. Never have international institutions worked together across the globe in concert like this.

We had a vaccine crated before the disease even hit the West, we tested and manufactured over several months.

Vax hesitancy is understandable, although the anti-vax stuff is terrible, it's mostly been an American thing.

Even the coordinated economic measures, as crap as they are ... were on the whole good.

If this were 50 years ago, we would be dying at 5x the rate and the Fiscal Policy / Central Banks I don't think would have reacted and we would be in a terrible recession with serious calamity. It would have been destructive globally, maybe even leading to war.

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