How many of the people responsible for this decision send their kids/grandkids to private school?
California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
221–230 of 748 posts
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#222Maybe instead they should try Saxon math or Singapore math curricula?
You obviously have to build up mathematical skill and intuition the right way, but there is an age-appropriate way to do this. NOT doing it seems rather backward.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#223When I pulled my kids out of traditional school we started introducing concepts of Algebra and Geometry to them immediately (2st and 4th grades). It takes extra work, but they understand everything just fine. The problem isn't that the kids can't understand it. The problem is our education system is broken and no longer has the ability to teach children anything other than what might be on a standardized test. This i…
> ...is more concerned with providing child care rather than instruction.
Which could actually be a reasonable design for school.
If public schools can't teach advanced topics, they could still handle the basics, provide childcare, and help to socialize kids.
And then tutors (backed by a voucher system), parents, and the internet can do the teaching of advanced topics.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's notable that Cupertino has some remarkable public schools, with high schools that have about half of their math faculty as Calculus teachers, and half of the students incoming from junior high are on track to finish Calculus by their junior year. Some students continue their math education at local colleges. Part of the success is most certainly the student culture, which pushes far harder than the faculty. It's…
> with high schools that have about half of their math faculty as Calculus teachers What does this mean? Is there some special qualification or licence to be allowed to teach calculus?
Most of the student body is taking/has taken some level of Calculus.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#225This is one of those issues that I can't understand the opposing argument. It's just an issue I find so objectionable that I cannot understand why anyone would be imposing this. Literally holding kids back. The only defense I hear is that kids don't really benefit from advanced classes and they'll be fine anyway. But gifted children will not necessarily be fine. Most of the smartest people I know struggled in school…
You're not supposed to understand "the opposing argument", because it's fake. The real goal of this change is to increase the gap between kids whose family situation will give them an opportunity to learn actual math before college, and those whose family situation will keep them permanently locked out of college. This will ensure that the demographics of the next generation are even more skewed toward social instabi…
This is absolutely what will happen. The state is forcing people to teach their kids at home and the children who don't have that support structure are going to get left behind. It almost seems like it will become common for students to skip grades.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#226The irony is that this is probably going to exacerbate social injustice. Cupertino kids are going to be taking extracurricular math through RSM or Kumon in elementary school, and then the Cupertino school district (in the article) says that they have no intention to comply with the recommendations. SF kids aren't going to be exposed to algebra until 9th grade and then get a rude awakening in college when they realize…
I've heard a good argument that algebra specifically should be moved the other way: teach it in elementary school, when kids are first exposed to arithmetic.
I think the core problem here is trying to teach all kids math in the same way. Not all kids are equally capable of learning math.
Some smart kids can learn algebra in elementary school. There are plenty of students capable of going through the standard curriculum and finishing calculus by the time they are 13 or 14. For these students, the faster the better. Go into even a "good" second-grade math class and you will find some of these students, acing tests and completely bored with everything taught in class.
On the other hand, some students will never be able to have a good understanding of pre-calculus. It doesn't matter if they take it when they are 17 or in college, they will never really get it. Or at least, there is no known teaching method capable of doing it.
How can you possibly design an education program that takes this into account? You just can't teach all 15-year-olds the same math curriculum without wasting the time of many of the students, either it's too hard or too easy.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#227The program is called Equitable Math and it frames current mathematics pedagogy as a mechanism by which White Supremacy is sustained.¹ Note that in a very long multi-part document on White Supremacy, there is absolutely zero mention of Asians, despite that they are somewhere between 15.5% to 17% of the state population.² Program goals includes the de-emphasis of Algebra for middle school and Calculus for high school.…
For anyone interested, I think it's probably worth actually digging into Equitable Math's "Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction" [0]. I just skimmed some of it based on your link, and the majority of it just reads like "stop teaching math poorly." I was looking for some real burn-down-the-establishment stuff, but it's honestly pretty prosaic. For example:
> "There is a greater focus on getting the "right" answer than understanding concepts and reasoning."
Probably most people would be on-board with the idea that concepts/reasoning are more important than blindly getting to the right answer, but "right" in quotes seems like a tell that some math-is-objective nonsense is on the way. Reading further, though, it turns out it's just talking about how word problems can be imprecise!
> "Math is taught in a linear fashion and skills are taught sequentially without true understanding of prerequisite knowledge."
This seems like the flexibility the other commenters are gunning for, even if California isn't on board with it.
> "Rigor is expressed only in difficulty."
I immediately thought, ugh, they're just trying to dumb everything down! But if we read further:
> "Too often in math, we limit the definition of rigor to difficulty, rather than its full complexity including thoroughness; exhaustiveness; interdisciplinary; and balancing conceptual understanding, procedural skills and fluency, and application. This allows math teachers to shy away from complex problems and tasks and instead streamline teaching like we are spoon-feeding..."
A thorough, conceptual understanding is superior to a surface-level ability to step through a process without understanding? Sign me up!
I poked around for anything more aggressive, but from what I can tell that's generally the vibe of the PDF. Yes, the framing is unnecessarily antagonistic, but if we took the white supremacy dressings off of it I doubt the ideas inside would be divisive at all.
Of course, I've only skimmed that one document! But if "Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction" is this inoffensive I'm not sure where they're hiding the real good stuff.
[0]: https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11...
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#228Here's a revolutionary idea that pretty much all of the world adopts, if students are having trouble with a topic, get them to do more of it, instead of running away from it. I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it till the next time you have t…
Same thing in France. There's just one subject - Mathematics.
Things are just spread out from 6th grade to 12th grade and specialization only happens during the last 2 years of high school.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. Since the organizations feel ashamed that they're failing certain demographics as evidenced by being under-represented in the advanced classes, they're just scrapping the advanced classes for everyone. Truly disgraceful
> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…
I took algebra in 7th grade as well, but it was considered advanced by 2 years. It was normal to take algebra in 9th grade. I went to an okay high school in a medium sized city in Michigan. That was about 20 years ago.
Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide
#230It’s the official shift from “we can lift everyone up” to “we need to hold everyone down”. It wasn’t that long ago the California was touting the success of Algebra for everyone in 8th grade.
This undertone exists in to pretty much all liberal polices.
For example, instead of making more energy, we have power cuts like a third world nation. We could instead build solar farms and nuclear energy, but California (and largely progressives) want shittier world for themselves. Wanna inspire people with values of perseverance and hard work? Nope, that’s not allowed. Want to eliminate homelessness? Nope, too ambitious. There isn’t a single public park in Oakland where homelessness isn’t rampant.
Basically, the entire thinking is about regression, not progression.
I only vote for Democrats because the alternative is worse. But it’s becoming harder.