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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

niemanlab.org

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#221

Post by rolandog »

xg15 wrote: post #167

> including an option that’s “at least as easy” as the one to subscribe Weirdly enough this sounds like a loophole. I can already see some companies trying to bullshit their way through an investigation: "Oh sure, we don't provide online cancellation, because our way to cancel is even easier than online:" * presents a way to cancel that is in practice more difficult than online *. I think either mandating that cancel…

It should have been stipulated that unsubscribing should be offered immediately after the option to subscribe.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#222

Post by jaclaz »

Ekaros wrote: post #135
tremon wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recommendation for using a certified letter is that you (as customer) have an independent paper trail to make your case should it go to court. At least in NL, a certified letter should not be required by the company itself.

In Finland cancelling rental contract can be fun, if you don't manage to contact your landlord. Your regular certified letter technically isn't enough. You need even more expensive version "registered with advice of receipt". Which is probably only way to prove in court that person received it... Though I haven't had issues in cancelling stuff. Online services work nicely for all other stuff.

... and if we want to get even pickier (again at least here in Italy) a Law firm will likely send you not (still by certified mail with receipt) a "normal" letter (i.e. one or more sheets of paper inside an envelope) but rather a "piego" (literally "fold") i.e. the sheets of papers folded in three, with the address (and the stamp) written on the back.

The rationale is that you could claim that you received the letter, but upon opening the envelope you found just some blank sheets, with the piego there is no way to deny that it has been received.

And viceversa, there have been cases of envelopes sent intentionally with blank sheets inside, only to get the receipt and then be able to claim that "document X" has been sent within a required deadline (and actually fabricating the document later).

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#223

Post by onionisafruit »

xg15 wrote: post #167

> including an option that’s “at least as easy” as the one to subscribe Weirdly enough this sounds like a loophole. I can already see some companies trying to bullshit their way through an investigation: "Oh sure, we don't provide online cancellation, because our way to cancel is even easier than online:" * presents a way to cancel that is in practice more difficult than online *. I think either mandating that cancel…

“What’s easier than making a quick phone call? It’s certainly easier than getting internet access, typing a url into a browser address bar, validating a ssl certificate, establishing an http session, authenticating with your credentials then finding and clicking the cancel button.”

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#224

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

ds wrote: post #217
ajb wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that is that you still have a valid contract, some companies will ding your credit rating and still pursue you for the money.

You cant ding a credit rating unless you have a users SSN, which the NYT almost certainly does not.

Nope. To put something on a credit report you need only match 2 out of Name, Address, DoB, and SSN. This is one of the big reasons why the reports are so inaccurate. It's absolutely hellish for people with a very common name. Source: when I was young my job was to investigate adverse items on credit reports and find legal pretexts to get them removed.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#225

Post by hnarn »

Nextgrid wrote: post #203
hnarn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't say this to people like it's some obvious truth. There are many cases in which this action will land you in trouble due to it not being a legally valid termination of the contract (which of course may be different by country -- it's very common that cancelling requires an actual message to the other party). One specific example is if your contract has a termination period, which is pretty common, at lea…

This makes sense if the contract indeed has a minimum commitment that hasn't been reached. But if the contract has no minimum term (or it has since passed) and you've made a reasonable effort to attempt to cancel with no success, it'll now be on them to recover the money through legal means which would require them to explain to the court why your cancellation attempt was ignored, demonstrating their bad faith in the…

The point of my comment was "this is not good general advice". The point of your comment seems to be "it can be good advice in some cases", which makes no sense to me. Obviously it can be good advice in that exact case where it makes sense, but it's not good general advice.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#226

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

ds wrote: post #219
acnops wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? I'm having the same issue

No. You cant do anything to someones credit unless you have their SSN. Damn good thing thats the case also, if you happen to be named Jane Doe or Bob Smith.

This is incorrect, see my other reply to you in the sibling thread.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#227

Post by onionisafruit »

portportport wrote: post #206
codingclaws wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal is logical on some stuff. Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this. Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

The drug policy is well known, but the speed traps is new and amusing. It reminds me of the horn activated red lights in India. Genius idea.

Don’t combine the ideas or everybody will be speeding and honking constantly.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#228

Post by dudul »

I see a lot of comments about hellish phone calls to cancel subscriptions.

Every time I have to make such unpleasant call (usually an ISP or phone carrier) I always start the conversation by telling the representative that I'm recording the call on my end. After that it's usually pretty smooth.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#229

Post by FpUser »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #165
mdp2021 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely reasonable and civilized. Would you say that the rest of the legislation in Portugal is consistent, and the direction of the Country is towards good sense and reliability? I have noticed of other EU countries that a response against abuse may exist, but severely delayed and only partial (e.g. about sale of misrepresented services and other contractual scams, especially when carried out over the phon…

> Would you say that the rest of the legislation in Portugal is consistent, and the direction of the Country is towards good sense and reliability? not GP, ... it is a role-model when it comes to the points listed above. I think it's hard to answer your question because how would one define "good sense and reliability". At the risk of being called out for whataboutism , here is something that would be sobering for mo…

>"...At the risk of being called out for whataboutism..."

One who calls the other "whataboutist" is usually a hypocrite.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#230

Post by alpaca128 »

bojan wrote: post #23

A lot of charities in the Netherlands do the same thing, where you can't just give a one-time donation, but have to subscribe to a monthly contribution. That is horrible enough as it is. But then to unsubscribe, you have to call them (during their and your office hours) and endure another couple of pitches to keep you subscribed until you are finally allowed to cancel. And then some of them even have a cancellation t…

In my case it was trivial to unsubscribe, but they then started sending me all kinds of letters in regular intervals. And never stopped, I still get them years later. I'm certain by now they paid more for those stupid letters and pens than I donated in the first place. Which is yet another reason for me to never waste money there again, as I now know where it's used.
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