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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

nytimes.com

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Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#221

Post by asdff »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #150
asdff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of working poor people rely on being able to do low cost maintenance themselves or bringing it to a family member or close friend with experience or a very trusted repair shop. They would never get their car serviced at the dealer given the costs. If the cost of repair is too large they sell the car for scrap and buy another bottom of market car and repeat the process. What happens for these people in the EV ag…

Well, I think the idea is that while it would be difficult to work on an EV motor yourself, it's also much less necessary, as electric motors are much simpler, with far fewer moving parts. I don't know if we have enough data yet to evaluate, but EV's should be much lower maintenance in that regard. Outside of the powertrain, seems like the rest of the car should be similar though, like tires and brakes, right?

It will be similar but who knows if you could do stuff like change rotting suspension bushings, change cabin air filters, replace rusting brake lines with third party parts or if Tesla will sell you these parts themselves directly (I'd expect not). I looked up how you change the headlight bulb on a tesla and it apparently involves removing the front wheel. Most other cars that's a thirty second job.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#222

Post by Maarten88 »

sbierwagen wrote: post #167
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

>from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies This has never been true, of course. As you would expect for something that costs a hundredth as much as a car, bicycling to work has always been more common among the poor: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2014/05/08/low-income-americans-...

That just adds another argument against safe bike infrastructure in US politics. Poor people are even more undeserving than lycra-clad yuppies ;-\

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#223

Post by ClumsyPilot »

danielheath wrote: post #212
cmos wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw into this confusion a badly implemented public transportation system that you find in most US cities. Public transportation and city bike rental systems should be free to ride. We all pay taxes to keep roads maintained, we should all pay taxes to keep public transportation maintained. Not charging would help busses keep their schedules with less queuing and waiting, tourists would be less likely to rent a car,…

> Public transportation and city bike rental systems should be free to ride. This would depend on first fixing the poverty and homelessness that make theft, vandalism and antisocial behaviour so common. These things cost money to protect them from the impact desperate people otherwise have on them. Now, I’d be thrilled to help pay for that to all happen, but the order should be respected; making trains and buses free…

"making trains and buses free isn’t as simple as it sounds."

It might be expebsive, but it's definately as simple as it sounds.

I do not see how vandalism will be any different than it is today

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#224

Post by asdff »

electriclove wrote: post #181
SavantIdiot wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm blown away by how expensive they are and then how many I see. $5k-$7k for an e-bicycle? Yes yes yes, I realize enthusiasts pay up to $10-15K for high-end frames and wheels, with full Campy gruppos[1], but eBike buyer's aren't CAT-2 qualifiers. On a side rant, the price of bikes in general has skyrockted. With so much of the manufacturing happening in China, I would have assumed that the overall costs of bikes wou…

You can get decent e-bikes for under $1k. It is still a lot but not ridiculous

Got any recommendations?

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#225

Post by BackBlast »

kevincrane wrote: post #18
paulgb wrote: post #4

The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People…

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

It's... complicated...

I rode a bike to school when my limited money would buy a very bad car or a nice bike. So I opted for the bike and had to ride it because that's all I had. I did that for a couple of years - even in the cold and ice. My commute distance varied in my biking days, from 6 to 20 miles.

I always obeyed all the traffic laws, though occasionally in the early AM I'd find lights that would not turn green for a bike no matter what I did.

I had people scream at me to get off the road, and otherwise be exceptionally rude. I occasionally had bike lanes and appreciated them, sought them out because it provided better spacing. But the busses on those routes were frequently in the bike lane and were, frankly, slower than I was. But navigating them was always a pain until I got well past them.

On slower roads (20-25 mph) with no bike lane I would take a lane to myself and keep up with traffic but only when I could reasonably keep up.

In the end, safety won out, and I abandoned the practice.

Now, as a driver, I am appalled at the behavior of cyclists. With my experience I take interest in and carefully watch their behavior.

Running red lights and not stopping for stop signs is the worst. And it's pretty universal.

Bad spacing in the lane, little to no accommodation for drivers when they could provide a bit more space for a comfortable pass. Sometimes they can't help it, and I get it, but when they can and don't... I always tried to be crystal clear about my messaging to the cars around me. I'm taking the lane here for my safety because there are parked cars in the bike lane or otherwise on the shoulder. I'm done now and look, I'm providing lots of space for everyone to safely pass me.

So the rude behavior I encountered was finally somewhat understood.

I really appreciated having good bike lanes. But cyclists do themselves no favors in how they conduct themselves, which will hurt them when pining for better road accommodations.

Even the cost factor is complicated. Everyone factors in the cost per mile of the bike, which is excellent, but the input calories are non-trivial and if you're not running the numbers on just ramen noodles it turns into quite a significant financial cost.

There are definitely health benefits.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#226

Post by jeffbee »

jmcphers wrote: post #208
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

> It’s super unfortunate that it still gets the stereotype as a “rich white people” activity when it’s really so much more financially accessible than a car. It's true that a bicycle is itself cheaper than a car, but housing within biking distance to job centers sure isn't. In my view this is the primary reason bicycle commuters are stereotypically rich folks. The bicycle itself isn't the expensive part; you need pro…

> bicycle commuters are stereotypically rich folks

Stereotypes are only useful to the extent that they contain a kernel of truth, and this one is just false. The largest group of American bicycle-to-work riders lies in the $20-30k/year income group, i.e. poor people. With each increase of $10k/year income there are fewer riders.

https://i2.wp.com/cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/201...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#227

Post by robotresearcher »

Johnny555 wrote: post #159
ryukafalz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask for the roads to be safer, it gets pushed back as "only biking enthusiasts use the roads now". Yup. Bit like how it's hard to argue for building a bridge by the number of people swimming across the river.

Yup. Bit like how it's hard to argue for building a bridge by the number of people swimming across the river. It's even worse since the bridge will be built with connecting roadways on both sides so it will be instantly popular. But often a few bike lanes will be constructed in isolation,t then people will complain "Look, we built these expensive bike lanes to nowhere and no one is even using them!" It takes a rich n…

This is a very important point. Bikeways, like roadways, are a system.

My South Bay commute has nice bike paths part of the way, but they stop just short of a major highway-freeway intersection. Sure, it would be tough to build a good bike lane through this busy, high speed intersection. So there isn’t one. So the bike path just… stops. And you have to navigate this scary section to proceed. So almost nobody does.

It’s such a shame since we have among the best bike-weather in the world, and a fairly flat basin to ride in. A little more infrastructure would help a lot. And e-bikes have their place for people going more than 20 mins and need to arrive feeling presentable.

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#228

Post by jeffbee »

danielheath wrote: post #212
cmos wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throw into this confusion a badly implemented public transportation system that you find in most US cities. Public transportation and city bike rental systems should be free to ride. We all pay taxes to keep roads maintained, we should all pay taxes to keep public transportation maintained. Not charging would help busses keep their schedules with less queuing and waiting, tourists would be less likely to rent a car,…

> Public transportation and city bike rental systems should be free to ride. This would depend on first fixing the poverty and homelessness that make theft, vandalism and antisocial behaviour so common. These things cost money to protect them from the impact desperate people otherwise have on them. Now, I’d be thrilled to help pay for that to all happen, but the order should be respected; making trains and buses free…

> This would depend on first fixing poverty and homelessness

How convenient for the car lobby that their luxuriously subsidized travel mode already excludes the poor, making them immune from this line of reasoning!

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#229

Post by jeffbee »

cuddlybacon wrote: post #191
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

> Safer roads means more people will bike, which means biking will stop being seen as an elitist thing. I don't think it is just safety. Most people understand an e-bike is going to be more dangerous, but they are popular anyways. The other factor is distance. e-bikes increase the distance that can be covered by a significant amount, which changes a lot of commutes from "too far" to acceptable. The only people who ca…

> The only people who can afford to be within a bike commute are at least above-average income-wise.

No. The income bracket most likely to bike to work makes less than $10k/year.

https://i1.wp.com/cityobservatory.org/wp-content/uploads/201...

Re: The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

#230

Post by JCharante »

BackBlast wrote: post #225
kevincrane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. Which I think is misguided pushback btw (which I think you agree with based on the context). I see it as a chicken and egg thing. The roads are unsafe for bikers, so the only people who bike are those who are super dedicated to it. Then when people ask fo…

It's... complicated... I rode a bike to school when my limited money would buy a very bad car or a nice bike. So I opted for the bike and had to ride it because that's all I had. I did that for a couple of years - even in the cold and ice. My commute distance varied in my biking days, from 6 to 20 miles. I always obeyed all the traffic laws, though occasionally in the early AM I'd find lights that would not turn gree…

Aren't people of lower economic means also more overweight? Some exercise doesn't seem like a bad idea.
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