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Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

element.io

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Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#221

Post by sneak »

Arathorn wrote: post #125
tao_oat wrote: post #97

> It’s also worth noting that end-to-end encryption is necessarily broken as messages to (and from) WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram pass across the bridge(s). The bridge(s) operates in Element’s trusted EMS environment, with no content scanning or datamining, but currently bridged conversations are not stored end-to-end encrypted in Matrix (they will be in the future). As a Signal user, I kind of don't want this to tak…

(Element CEO here). Honestly, it depends on your threat profile. Any kind of bridge has to inevitably MITM your conversations in order to work, and we’ve tried to spell that out in all the product info about Element One. If you want to avoid your E2EE conversations on Signal or WhatsApp being relayed via a service like Element One (because you’re an activist or whatever), then your options are to not bridge at all, o…

You misunderstood what he said if that is your TLDR.

Furthermore, this is not the first time privacy issues with Matrix have been brought up to you and dismissed without understanding.

I am going to begin recommending that people actively avoid adopting Matrix/Element.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#222

Post by phicoh »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #171
pmlnr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want this to take off. I'm tired of having to follow trends because people suddenly think there's a new shinyshinytrendy thing around: IRC to ICQ to MSN to Skype to Google Talk to Facebook Messenger to Whatsapp to Signal. Pidgin is good (I also miss the ancient Trillian, even though it was closed source), but limited to a local device. There are XMPP Transports as well for these (see https://git.eta.st/eta/whatsxmp…

Because your own service is not an alternative if you actually need to secure-message others because of the line of work you're in, or the regime you're under. The idea that "just do it yourself" is more secure than a company that can't just be walked into and have their computers taken without it causing a huge problem for everyone from your mom to heads of state is a bit naive.

The advantage of having your servers at home is that when the police shows up with a search warrent you know you can't trust that server anymore.

If you use a 3rd party, it can be compromised and you only find out when it is too late.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#223

Post by acdha »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #205
hellojesus wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the walled garden is the competitive advantage. A law like this could regulate businesses out of existence. Which websites fall under it? Only social? What about forums, etc. What if the companies just rebase to non-US jurisdictions? Even if you make this law, it's unlikely it would actually compel anyone to comply.

> A law like this could regulate businesses out of existence. Only if they didn't change their business model to something less incredibly antisocial than walling people in and serving them ads. There are many ways to operate a communications business on-line. That only the bad one is used in practice is a consequence of it being the most profitable of available options. If it weren't available (say, because of being…

Yes — this line of argument sounds exactly like the people who very confidently said that the economy couldn’t survive ditching asbestos or CFCs, emissions laws would destroy California, etc.

The key part is having regulations apply the rules evenly so everyone prices it into their decisions. Trying to limit specific companies makes that feedback cycle less effective.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#224

Post by modeless »

I am in the Beeper beta. Beeper supports Matrix, Whatsapp, Signal, and Telegram, but also Slack, Discord, Hangouts, Instagram, Linkedin, Facebook Messenger, SMS, Twitter, and crucially, iMessage on non-Apple devices! It is a beta but it works pretty well so far. AMA

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#225

Post by godelski »

pmlnr wrote: post #137
loriverkutya wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t run my own service for the same reason I don’t build my own car or I don’t do accounting for my company, I don’t have the time to learn how to do it nor doing it.

No, this is not the same. You want the utmost privacy, yet you still decide to trust someone over it.

You're right, it isn't the same. Instructions on how to build a car don't change every week. As a hobbiest I wouldn't trust my life on getting in a car if that was a requirement. There's more in my life than that single hobby that I need to do and I only have so much time.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#226

Post by zepto »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #199
zepto wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - the bridge could be compromised without your conversation partner’s involvement. I.e. the bridge is a vulnerability that enables man in the middle attacks.

From your POV, the threat model is equivalent to your partner being compromised themselves, and reporting your conversation to criminals/terrorists/law enforcement/intelligence agencies/boogeyman du jour. Bridges don't install themselves in place of platform's messengers - it's the user that has to make an active choice to use one. If you don't trust your partner making a right choice for both of you, you can't reall…

> From your POV, the threat model is equivalent to your partner being compromised themselves, and reporting your conversation to criminals/terrorists/law enforcement/intelligence agencies/boogeyman du jour.

Not even close. I can evaluate the likelyhood of my partner being compromised. I can’t evaluate the likelyhood of a gateway I may not even know about being compromised.

The introduction of these gateways makes the entire system less trustworthy.

Honestly I can’t see how Matrix/Element can stand behind this in good conscience. It is strictly a harm to the goal of enabling private communications. I literally found myself thinking it was a joke when I read it, and I no longer think matrix/element are serious.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#227

Post by [deleted] »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #171
pmlnr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want this to take off. I'm tired of having to follow trends because people suddenly think there's a new shinyshinytrendy thing around: IRC to ICQ to MSN to Skype to Google Talk to Facebook Messenger to Whatsapp to Signal. Pidgin is good (I also miss the ancient Trillian, even though it was closed source), but limited to a local device. There are XMPP Transports as well for these (see https://git.eta.st/eta/whatsxmp…

Because your own service is not an alternative if you actually need to secure-message others because of the line of work you're in, or the regime you're under. The idea that "just do it yourself" is more secure than a company that can't just be walked into and have their computers taken without it causing a huge problem for everyone from your mom to heads of state is a bit naive.

[deleted]

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#228

Post by hypertele-Xii »

noahtallen wrote: post #162
h0nd wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want a man in the middle of my communications?

The real answer is because you want all your conversations to happen in the same app/protocol. You never have to download a shiny new messenger again

I'ved heard that pitch before. It's always true only for some length of time. Protocols change, services evolve, companies transform, products are deprecated and people are fickle.

I've used all-in-one messengers before. They come and go like the wind. You'll be downloading a shiny new all-in-one messenger periodically anyway.

Just trading one kind of inconvenience for another.

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#229

Post by hypertele-Xii »

pi7h3n wrote: post #169
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And FB will probably not like running WA in an emulator, and will kill that option as soon as it reaches ~100k users.

how can they kill it?

They have so much money and influence, I trust them to find a way :)

Re: Element One – All of Matrix, WhatsApp, Signal and Telegram in one place

#230

Post by lostmsu »

briffle wrote: post #179
dTal wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wasn't a "service" - it was a program. Unlike this thing. The main difference between this and Pidgin seems to be that you pay a monthly fee for someone to man-in-the-middle all your communications.

Can you run Pidgin on your phone and tablet and laptop and move between them?

Depends on the services you connect to.
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