Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic • Hacker News Board

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#221

Post by runarberg » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #179

danuker wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 20 million trees planted would offset US emissions by 2 days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqht2bIQXIY

But I can’t tell if 20 million trees is a lot or a little.

I did some quick googling and the first figure I found was that Americans plant around 1.6 billion trees every year. That is around 4.4 million every day, almost half of what is required for the carbon offset claims by GP.

Actually 20 million trees every 2 days doesn’t sound that ridiculous. Especially as we build more green infrastructure and reduce the daily emissions.

https://www.greenandgrowing.org/how-many-trees-are-planted-e...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#222

Post by boplicity » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 1:54 AM UTC

entropicgravity wrote: post #78

canadian_tired wrote: post #64

Wood is renewable when you can grow it, cut it up into useful shapes, then at the end of its useful life, compost it. As soon as you add a shit load of processing and plastic and other stuff it's not "wood" anymore than gasoline is a dead dinosaur. As for things like plywood that use glue for the laminations...glue is the most expensive and important part of the product. Not the wood so much. Replacing steel? I don't…

In addition progress making steel with a lot less CO2, by using hydrogen (and other techniques) instead of coal has come a long way. This isn't just pie in the sky, the world's second largest steel maker plans to reduce CO2 by 30% before 2030. [1] And of course steel is eminently recyclable. I'm not against wood but steel has some good long term attributes as well. [1] https://corporate.arcelormittal.com/sustainabili…

Steel production is one of the largest contributors to global C02 emissions. Reducing it by 30% isn't a solution. Unfortunately, zero-carbon-emissions steel is still not feasibile, which is a major, major issue for the health of our planet.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#223

Post by politician » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

potatoman22 wrote: post #212

politician wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can’t figure out how to store a minimal quantity of radioactive waste in a purpose-built salt mine dozens of miles away from any small town. I have no faith that we can find places to store megatons of plastic waste.

Plastic doesn't radiate.

NIMBY neighbors don’t compromise.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#224

Post by anon_cow1111 » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:00 AM UTC

tromp wrote: post #13

symby wrote: post #4

I'm sold. Where can I get some of this hardened wood? I would like to experiment with it and maybe incorporate it into products.

I'd love some hardwood cutlery. Assuming it's soak-proof, as I often leave dirty kitchenware to soak before washing it.

I'll give you a more specific reply along with the parent poster while I'm at it... You definitely can cut meat etc, with densified wood, just don't expect it to hold an edge like your steel cutlery, especially if you're using with something besides a soft cutting board. The article mentions oil-treatment so it probably won't absorb water in normal kitchen use.

In terms of edge-retention there just isn't a good alternative to steel atm. This wood will likely preform around the same as unhardened steel or aluminum, So it'll cut but you'll need to sharpen it frequently.

If you're looking more for fancy-pants artistic appeal and don't mind high price, there's always obsidian blades out there from small-time makers. They'll be about as good as ceramic sharpness-wise, but look a lot nicer IMO.

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#225

Post by tjmc » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:06 AM UTC

Mechanical engineer here. This article is very light on a lot of detail which would allow you to reasonably compare this material to steel, plastic or any other material. Just a few that come to mind:

Hard materials are usually brittle materials that fail suddenly. How tough is it? ie. Can it accept some deformation without significant weakening and will it stretch or crack prior to failure?

What is its compressive strength? What is it's tensile strength? Could it be used to reinforce concrete? Pipe liquids or gases? Does it's strength drop when it gets wet?

How dense is it? How flammable is it? How easy is it to machine without damaging it?

And of course the big one - how much does it cost?

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#226

Post by haimez » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

politician wrote: post #223

potatoman22 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic doesn't radiate.

NIMBY neighbors don’t compromise.

They might if it affected their states tax revenue and was only a plastic landfill (which is to say, not a compromise but a pure self interest play).

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#227

Post by bumby » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

Ma8ee wrote: post #146

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are people not considering just growing large trees to capture carbon cut down those trees and just coat them in plastic and throw them at the bottom of ocean/desert or some kind of storage where this carbon can stay trapped for thousands of years ? What am I missing ? I think growing trees is better than just capturing CO2 directly as growing a large forest might have other advantages and a lot of wood can be us…

Or build houses and bridges and stuff with them instead of concrete.

The US can’t keep up with infrastructure maintenance as it is, let alone moving to materials with shorter lifespans and more maintenance

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#228

Post by sixstringtheory » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

ksec wrote: post #129

For people who are interested in Timber Building / Construction. The World's Tallest Timber Buildings [1], Why Finland is Building a Wood City [2]. Why There Are No Timber Skyscrapers [3], Why All Buildings Should Be Timber [4] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3JqSsc8ZKk [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4QYkEpw9pA [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_8LlcuV0gc [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieBVNgMkcpw

To add more huge timber structures to the list, here’s a starting point to see/learn more about the historical Kennecott mine in Wrangell-St. Elias Nat’l park in Alaska [0]. I’ve had the good fortune to walk through it–it is simply incredible.

[0]: https://www.nps.gov/wrst/learn/historyculture/kennecott-mine...

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#229

Post by korantu » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

account_b wrote: post #201

korantu wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it also mean that using wood at industrial scale is bad idea? Trees need phosphorus too

To add: I want to stress the phosphorus is used by all livings things part. Plants get phosphorus from soil, animals get it from plants, predators from other animals, and finally microorganisms from our all remains. But it all starts with plants. We cannot grow "low phosphorus" food plants or anything. It's used in ADP and DNA synthesis! Phosphorus sits at the core of life itself. Every living cell on earth depends o…

Thank you for explanation.

It seems then we need to avoid competition with food.

TTrough human history predictions of us running out of resources did not materialize

Re: Hardened wood as a renewable alternative to steel and plastic

#230

Post by scythe » Fri, Oct 22, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

sfink wrote: post #12

I've been intrigued for a while about various modified wood technologies (eg hardened wood, transparent wood), but I'm always disappointed because it usually ends up just being a minor support structure for a very non-wood material (generally epoxy). This one shows a compression step, so maybe it's different, but I'd really like more info on whether this is actually renewable or sustainable in any interesting sense.…

Since the article talks a lot about replacing small plastic utensils, it seems plausible that they're not targeting structural applications at the moment, so the point about glue could be moot.

But will we see a wooden laptop?