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PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

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Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#221

Post by pkulak »

arcticbull wrote: post #215
pkulak wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. There's always a downside to everything. OP wanted a solution for small donations, and Nano is still the best option. It's worth it to take on some volatility risk so that the people donating know that all their donation goes directly to you, and anyone in the world can donate any amount with or without a bank account, just by showing a short address on your site's page. And no, it's not at all like an airport…

Significant volatility is not a property of any decent currencies. I respectfully disagree with your assertion of the supremacy of nano for small donations on the basis of volatility. Your statement that understanding of volatility is sufficient is [edit](incomplete IMO). Ask anyone holding Dentacoin haha.

Fair enough. I guess it boils down to what's worse: you _will_ lose money on the transaction because someone is taking it from you, or you _may_ lose money after the transaction.

For example, take a $1 donation that PayPal takes their 50-cent fee out of. That's a guaranteed loss of 50%. You'd have to be extremely risk adverse to take a 50% loss to avoid even crypto volatility.

It's all tradeoffs. Volatility sucks. Fees suck. But they suck more or less depending on the situation.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#222

Post by gfxgirl »

Reason077 wrote: post #90
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

Merchant fees for both debit and credit cards are significantly lower in all EU countries (and UK), compared to the US, thanks to the interchange fee regulation (IFR) that caps interchange fees at 0.2% for debit card and 0.3% for credit cards. This translates into much lower merchant fees. Even a tiny startup with zero transaction volume can easily get less than 2% on their physical card transactions (using something…

Sure, but then add in 21% VAT tax. Not defending the US but a 3% fee + (0%-11%) added sales tax doesn't seem like it would be a bigger "weight on the system" than a 21% VAT tax

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#223

Post by bakuninsbart »

gfxgirl wrote: post #222
Reason077 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merchant fees for both debit and credit cards are significantly lower in all EU countries (and UK), compared to the US, thanks to the interchange fee regulation (IFR) that caps interchange fees at 0.2% for debit card and 0.3% for credit cards. This translates into much lower merchant fees. Even a tiny startup with zero transaction volume can easily get less than 2% on their physical card transactions (using something…

Sure, but then add in 21% VAT tax. Not defending the US but a 3% fee + (0%-11%) added sales tax doesn't seem like it would be a bigger "weight on the system" than a 21% VAT tax

VAT pays for our free schools and healthcare, transaction fees go into banks coffers. For you as an individual, some things are more expensive to purchase in Europe, sure, but I think equivocating the two is false.

E: I didn't read the guy you were answering closely enough. In the context of his comment, yours of course makes perfect sense.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#224

Post by lvl100 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #210
lvl100 wrote: post #152

Paypal is a classic rent seeker. Nearly two years into pandemic, they still refuse to hire people for live customer service. Despite record profit. If anyone is looking for a startup idea: an online payment platform that charges on outbound bank transfers only. Heck charge 5% fee. And let all transactions be completely free.

Are you aware that the US Federal Reserve is deploying instant payments infrastructure in 2023? I believe the cost will be free to consumers, and pennies per transaction to businesses. I'd expect online payments will integrate with banking providers to support initiating instant payments from deposit accounts, similar to Europe's IBAN instant payment system. https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-feder…

I am aware of the Fed solution. I can tell you it’s DOA and by design.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#225

Post by toomuchtodo »

lvl100 wrote: post #224
toomuchtodo wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that the US Federal Reserve is deploying instant payments infrastructure in 2023? I believe the cost will be free to consumers, and pennies per transaction to businesses. I'd expect online payments will integrate with banking providers to support initiating instant payments from deposit accounts, similar to Europe's IBAN instant payment system. https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-feder…

I am aware of the Fed solution. I can tell you it’s DOA and by design.

Would love to hear more, as I know a stakeholder involved in beta testing and that's not the ground truth I'm hearing (working as expected, deployment ahead of schedule). Don't violate any NDAs of course.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#226

Post by lotsofpulp »

xur17 wrote: post #189
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

> Looking back, I have to imagine that this 3%+ tax on all American transactions must put a weight on the system. I 100% agree. It's pretty absurd that all merchants have to pay a 3% fee on the vast majority of their transactions with no real alternative. And I realize crypto gets a bad rap around here, but I really do think stablecoins offer an interesting way around this. It's an open standard that anyone can build…

> It's pretty absurd that all merchants have to pay a 3% fee on the vast majority of their transactions with no real alternative.

No, they do not have to pay a 3% fee. Debit card fees are basically negligible. Sellers can also impose additional fees for credit card users if they wish. For example, Winco grocery stores in the western US only accept debit cards. Many government agencies also charge a card fee if you want to pay via card rather than ACH.

Sellers in the US choose to pay the extra processing fees because they earn more than that from people who pay with credit cards.

See:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/new...

> A PCN cannot stop you from offering your customers a discount or another incentive for using a certain method of payment, as long as you offer it to all your customers and disclose the offer clearly and conspicuously. For example, you can offer your customers a discount or a coupon if they pay with cash or a debit card rather than a credit card.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressions_Hair_Design_v._Sch...

https://harvardlawreview.org/2017/11/expressions-hair-design...

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#227

Post by danlugo92 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #93
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

Even better, many PayPal payments are from PayPal funds, Checking acct debits or EU/AU/NZ cardholders with capped charges, so PayPal pays 0% or under 1% to visa/MC for those transactions, but charges the same 3%+ to vendors. Plus additional charges for cross-border payments (even if there’s no forex) and terrible rates for forex which they probably self-settle anyway.

They can afford to do this because "it just works"(r)(tm).

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#228

Post by danlugo92 »

herbst wrote: post #139
dr_dshiv wrote: post #59

When I moved to the Netherlands, I was at first irritated that my credit cards weren't accepted anywhere. But as the debit (maestro) card transactions are often free [1], paying 3%+ to a card service does seem exorbitant. For online payments, the Dutch use the IDEAL system, which is even easier than online credit cards. This also prevents vendor lock-in, like Amazon. And, the banking apps make it super easy to send m…

Switzerland has a system called Twint. It exists as prepaid account or attached to one of the most popular Swiss bank accounts. Transactions are free (for end users) and instant, you can even chat with emojis under the transaction. You can start accepting Twint without any hurdles. Or use a merchant gateway and pay like 0.3% or so.

There's Zelle in the US.

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#229

Post by mint2 »

Grimm665 wrote: post #164
patentatt wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, you’re giving us Americans too much credit, credit card fraud happens all the time. It’s like a constant thing you have to watch out for, and I’d estimate happens once every couple of years for most people. Either straight up fraud and theft, or just a recurring charge that will not stop no matter what. So the system is super broken and relevant to individuals, which is why people accept all the fees maybe. It’s…

This seems overblown, I've had credit cards for over ten years in the US, using them in person and online, and the only time I've ever had a fraudulent transaction was an hour after my wallet was stolen, which like yeah, kind of expected. I'm not sure what you mean by "happens once every couple of years for most people."

I’ve had at one card # stolen each year for the past 4 years.

I’m pretty sure it’s gas stations and airport merchants. But it could be hacked online stores.

Amex is good at catching it.

Pnc bank on the other hand wad bad. My work card got used shorty after flying from sfo and PNC bank let them ring up 2,000 of hotel fees and didn’t flag any of it, and due to how the work cards work I didn’t find out until a month or more later

Re: PayPal raises fees for most domestic transaction types to 3.49% + $0.49

#230

Post by mint2 »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #119
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how Americans are totally fine with paying a tax on every transaction they make in order to protect random people from occurrences of financial fraud, yet are vehemently opposed to exactly the same system for healthcare. I mean, rationally you would expect the opposite: people typically don't do $10k+ transactions using credit cards, so a worst case consequence of fraud you're not protected from is quite small…

Americans really don't have a choice, the merchants are making the rules and offering a service. Anyway Americans pay pretty high taxes, they're comparable to Europe (albeit not as high as crazy countries like Italy, Spain or France, I have no idea how those countries can even survive). I'm sure they'd be more than happy if the government were spending less and letting them to pay less taxes and buy a private insuran…

The main problem with healthcare is prices are not transparent and the customers don’t have the ability to shop around even if the prices were known.
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