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Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

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Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#221

Post by lowercased »

heurisko wrote: post #174
api wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. Lower friction wins. You can just upload PHP scripts and go, while almost everything else requires many more installation steps or even monstrosities like Kubernetes.

Modern PHP application development doesn't really use the "deploy PHP scripts to a folder" model any more. The more likely scenario is that a framework with a front controller is used, which is invoked by php-fpm, proxied by nginx. It's easy enough to do, though.

The bulk of what I do is still, essentially, 'deploy to a folder'. There's some build steps, and a symlink swap from old to new, but that's still what it's doing. And I can still go edit a single file in a folder some place if I need to test/debug something. That's rare, but there are times when production is the only place an issue shows up (or... the only place you can replicate it - usually you can figure out enough from that to replicate locally later).

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#222

Post by iso1631 »

winternett wrote: post #190
Grimm1 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Code compilation has saved me so many headaches that would have otherwise been discovered in production, so I can't say I agree with you there. That said the languages I compile also take 15 seconds so I don't experience that 40 minute compilation times some people have and that would probably sour my experience a bit. The language I'm talking about is Elixir fwiw.

Wait a minute... You guys don't test in PROD? LOL... j/k. :P Architecture design and Agile now compensate for the traditional compile/test procedures... DEV > STAGE > PROD When it's practiced with discipline it works well, catching most issues prior to the system going down anyway on deployments to PROD :)

> Wait a minute... You guys don't test in PROD?

Of course I do. No other environment is identical to prod, real data, real users, real scale.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#223

Post by unnouinceput »

oefrha wrote: post #179
unnouinceput wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A search, right now, on Upwork does the following: PHP - 12316 jobs Ruby - 1175 jobs Java - 5902 jobs Python - 10051 jobs .NET - 2353 jobs Adding a few of the others: C# - 2562 jobs (I suspect those .NET also can be interchanged with C#) C++ - 1711 jobs Go - 3925 jobs Rust - 382 jobs Feel free to double check my results. Like it or not, Upwork is the largest freelancer site.

Upwork also skews towards one-off gigs for businesses serving a tiny audience, often with <=$100 pay. The average full-time, long-term job offering could be equivalent to maybe 50 average Upwork jobs (just a ballpark number I pulled out of nowhere).

And let's assume your pulled from nowhere ballpark number would be true. Even then the percentage of those jobs would still be in favor for PHP, with PHP being an order of magnitude higher than Ruby

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#225

Post by thinkharderdev »

simion314 wrote: post #181
AzzieElbab wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not about efficiency , it is about legacy. You can count number of Perl scripts out there and conclude that Perl is still the most popular scripting/devops tool in the world

Not always true. Is also about the best tool for the job. Ex. I had to implement a task that would need to check if an image is similar to other image (not related to porn/csam). I implemented it with just a few line of PHP and no 100+ package dependencies. How? I run a linux CLI app from inside PHP, super easy. but, but , you can do it with node too, - yes, but guess int he past in a node project, soem dev instead o…

Or, maybe developers who choose other languages are also competent professionals who make language/framework choices for good reasons. I have no considered opinion about PHP but one reason I have never used it for a web application backend is because I do a lot of coding that PHP is not well-suited for (high-performance, data intensive) and it is easier to write the web server in the same language I use for everything else.

Also, in general passing untrusted input to shell commands is probably a bad idea. FFmpeg has had many CVEs over the years and taking an upload from a user and piping it to a CLI command is asking for trouble. There are considerations beyond just doing the easiest thing that could possibly work.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#226

Post by sam0x17 »

This is fascinating as it goes contrary to the Google Trends data on a number of languages. For example google trends interest in Ruby peaked in like ~2011 and has been on the decline, however this shows that actual usage of ruby in production has been steadily increasing year over year since then and is now second only to ASP.NET and PHP.

This suggests that company adoption either doesn't perfectly track with or significantly lags behind community interest (by ~10 years), which is something I think we all know is true but this is the first time I've seen it measured in a meaningful way.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#227

Post by joelbluminator »

qaq wrote: post #75
qsort wrote: post #11

How did Ruby increase that much lately? Also, I'm surprised Python isn't more popular. 1% is (comparatively) tiny for a language that popular.

Discourse sites ?

Maybe, or Jekyll, Github pages etc etc...

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#228

Post by xtracto »

gitgud wrote: post #166
cardanome wrote: post #45

PHP is a great fit for most web projects. It is battle tested with great backwards compatibility, fast, offers the best deployment story and combines the advantages of dynamic and static typing with it's gradual typing system (Think Typescript without the complexity of Typescript.) The next version is even going to improve on its weakest point, concurrency, with Fibers: https://php.watch/versions/8.1/fibers Sure we a…

> " I really don't get why PHP is not more liked in hacker circles " To me PHP is an ugly language, with heaps of quirks and weird api's. The way it mixes markup and logic is gross. That being said, I do like some parts of it. The way you compose pages by just writing "include" is nice. The way the server spins up processes for every request like a micro-service is nice. PHP does have an elegant simplicity that many…

> To me PHP is an ugly language, with heaps of quirks and weird api's. The way it mixes markup and logic is gross.

Kind of tangential, but I've found a similar thing in the React framework: After all these years working towards splitting UI with logic, React asks me to hardcode the graphical components in a return () function. It is something I just cannot grok. I prefer frameworks that let you separate the UI elements from the logic that drives them.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#229

Post by simion314 »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #225
simion314 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always true. Is also about the best tool for the job. Ex. I had to implement a task that would need to check if an image is similar to other image (not related to porn/csam). I implemented it with just a few line of PHP and no 100+ package dependencies. How? I run a linux CLI app from inside PHP, super easy. but, but , you can do it with node too, - yes, but guess int he past in a node project, soem dev instead o…

Or, maybe developers who choose other languages are also competent professionals who make language/framework choices for good reasons. I have no considered opinion about PHP but one reason I have never used it for a web application backend is because I do a lot of coding that PHP is not well-suited for (high-performance, data intensive) and it is easier to write the web server in the same language I use for everythin…

>Also, in general passing untrusted input to shell commands is probably a bad idea.

This is why you escape the shell command arguments, but if you blindly npm install a shitty wrapper you probably hit the issue with security issues. Sure review of the dependency would be great but I did not seen many devs doing it, if they would have reviewed the ffmpeg wrapper would have noticed the simplicity and implemented themselves and on top of that learned some new stuff.

>Or, maybe developers who choose other languages are also competent professionals

I did not say that all of node developers are beginners, I am saying that many developers are not using the right tool for the job but use the cool tool for the job and some developers just blindly npm install shit because this is the only thing they know.

And I can confess I was guilty of this, on a project I propose to use Qt4 over Adobe Air because I was fan Qt and hated Adobe , turned out in the end I was forced to use Adobe Air and I loved it, for what we were doing it was the best tool for the job.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#230

Post by joelbluminator »

unnouinceput wrote: post #163
57844743385 wrote: post #48

A search of my country’s main job site says approx: 250 Ruby ads 420 PHP ads 1600 Java ads 1600 python ads 1300 .NET ads

A search, right now, on Upwork does the following: PHP - 12316 jobs Ruby - 1175 jobs Java - 5902 jobs Python - 10051 jobs .NET - 2353 jobs Adding a few of the others: C# - 2562 jobs (I suspect those .NET also can be interchanged with C#) C++ - 1711 jobs Go - 3925 jobs Rust - 382 jobs Feel free to double check my results. Like it or not, Upwork is the largest freelancer site.

Well to counter your anecdotal search Linkedin shows 31226 jobs for Ruby (U.S) vs 22208 for PHP. I think PHP isn't really strong in North American but more in Europe.
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