221–230 of 438 posts
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> Fusion is what reduces energy cost potentially another 10x How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Anybody looking at numbers sees fusion never, ever producing so much as a single erg of commercially viable energy. So, anybody saying otherwise is simply making it up.
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> Fusion is what reduces energy cost potentially another 10x How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Yeah, really, how? Fusion power plants still need land, buildings, generators, switchyards, wire, own power consumption, environmental impact reports, planning permits, regulations, inspections, and all the rest. And they need exotic materials and weird engineering in their construction. Really: how does fusion get us to ~1% (correction: ~5%) of current power prices? I've never seen a convincing explanation. Usually…
If you could hypothetically build a fusion plant that would generate several times more power than existing fission reactors at a similar construction cost, you would have so much power you wouldn't have to worry much about transmission losses. At which point you could put it in the middle of nowhere without those constraints and make it actually less expensive for several times more power.
Then for cities power gets cheaper, but for anything that can be built out in the middle of nowhere near the reactor, power gets a lot cheaper.
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You are right, people who flippantly dismiss fusion just don't understand it. -Fusion has made consistent improvement, roughly in line with expectations for the level of investment (20 years away predictions were considering if we invested massively, which we did not). - Fusion is in theory something that could give us true energy abundance. Want to just desalinate water like crazy? Want to extract gigatons of carbon…
> Fusion is what reduces energy cost potentially another 10x How did you arrive at that conclusion?
But with fusion the endless claims of "too cheap to meter" are because how much energy there is in a fusion reaction. [0] We know that fission produces a lot of energy (but is expensive) but fusion produces significantly more. It also doesn't have the radiation drawbacks and so it is expected to follow the S curve (fission did initially but things changed. This is part of why France has so much nuclear).
So if (big if) fusion does follow this S curve (which there are good reasons to expect it to) then it could provide a very cheap and sustainable energy source. Yes, it is a bet, but every technology is. We won't know until we spend significant time and money into researching it. But honestly, a few billion dollars isn't that crazy for the potential upsides. We've spent that money on far greater risks with lower payout. Despite what the OP said, the money for ITER does not require international collaboration. Any rich country could do it themselves.
[0] (Fission and fusion can yield energy graph) http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/NucEne/nucbin.htm...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Fusion is what reduces energy cost potentially another 10x How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Yeah, really, how? Fusion power plants still need land, buildings, generators, switchyards, wire, own power consumption, environmental impact reports, planning permits, regulations, inspections, and all the rest. And they need exotic materials and weird engineering in their construction. Really: how does fusion get us to ~1% (correction: ~5%) of current power prices? I've never seen a convincing explanation. Usually…
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> Fusion is what reduces energy cost potentially another 10x How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Yeah, really, how? Fusion power plants still need land, buildings, generators, switchyards, wire, own power consumption, environmental impact reports, planning permits, regulations, inspections, and all the rest. And they need exotic materials and weird engineering in their construction. Really: how does fusion get us to ~1% (correction: ~5%) of current power prices? I've never seen a convincing explanation. Usually…
I don’t know how it costs in US, but in France, fully charging a Model 3 costs about ~5€ at night. That’s not 10x cheaper than gas but that’s a lot cheaper.
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Yeah, really, how? Fusion power plants still need land, buildings, generators, switchyards, wire, own power consumption, environmental impact reports, planning permits, regulations, inspections, and all the rest. And they need exotic materials and weird engineering in their construction. Really: how does fusion get us to ~1% (correction: ~5%) of current power prices? I've never seen a convincing explanation. Usually…
One of the big problems with existing power plants is that you have to build them near where people are. So then land is expensive and you get a bunch of regulations because people are worried about what's happening in their back yard. If you could hypothetically build a fusion plant that would generate several times more power than existing fission reactors at a similar construction cost, you would have so much powe…
Unless fusion power is dramatically more efficient than other thermal plants, like 99.9%, your bigger plant will still need massive heat removal structures and systems, which means siting them near water. All the good spots are already taken.
Alternatively you can use truly massive air heat transfer structures, driving up your construction costs again.
I neglected to mention finance costs also. With an untried technology the rate of return demanded is going to be very high, further driving up project costs.
Massive international expansion of fission energy is needed for humanity to prosper.
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> Fusion is what reduces energy cost potentially another 10x How did you arrive at that conclusion?
Responding for the parent. They are basically making predictions with S curves. Technology often starts out as really expensive but after awhile gets super cheap, following what appears to be an exponential curve (bottom of the S), before it levels off (top of the S). Yeah, look more like an integral sign or sigmoid. But with fusion the endless claims of "too cheap to meter" are because how much energy there is in a…