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The Winners of Remote Work

nytimes.com

221–230 of 276 posts

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you use in-person that is unavailable for remote work? Butt-in-seat time?

It's much easier to see the intangibles. For instance, I'm a fairly senior team member who's a core subject matter expert for a few major things our team owns. A huge chunk of my day involves people asking me questions about them. In person, it's trivial to see everyone coming up to my desk, hear me jumping into team discussions, and so on. Remote, it's on me to let management know that's what my time is being spent…

I think what you're using as a positive signal is actually a negative signal. If people ask you for help and >50% of the responses aren't "here is a link to a doc/previous discussion" then you are a bus factor 1. Also, this can all be done with a ping on jira or your ticket manager and easily be seen.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's got to be clickbait. If there are winners, then how many workers are losing by working remotely? It seems obvious that the vast majority of people win big by not being forced to commute into a full day at an office where they would rather not be.

how many workers are losing by working remotely I think the big losers are the service workers that provided services for all of those office employees: coffee shop workers, restaurants, drycleaners, caterers that provided employee lunches, cleaning people, etc. A Starbucks, a drycleaner and 2 or 3 restaurants that were in my former office building have shut down permanently. My company stopped stocking snacks and ca…

I think in general you'll just see a lot of those restaurants and businesses that provide services to office employees move to where they can provide services to remote employees. Service industry businesses generally follow people and if people aren't going downtown everyday and instead hanging around the suburbs, then you'll likely see more starbucks etc in the suburbs serving that crowd.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how many workers are losing by working remotely I think the big losers are the service workers that provided services for all of those office employees: coffee shop workers, restaurants, drycleaners, caterers that provided employee lunches, cleaning people, etc. A Starbucks, a drycleaner and 2 or 3 restaurants that were in my former office building have shut down permanently. My company stopped stocking snacks and ca…

I think in general you'll just see a lot of those restaurants and businesses that provide services to office employees move to where they can provide services to remote employees. Service industry businesses generally follow people and if people aren't going downtown everyday and instead hanging around the suburbs, then you'll likely see more starbucks etc in the suburbs serving that crowd.

My town already had one Starbucks before the pandemic and still has one Starbucks after the pandemic -- moving people to work from home doesn't change the economics of running a service business like a coffee shop or restaurant. My office building had 25 floors, and probably over 1000 people worked there. That's a lot of foot traffic, probably more than my small downtown sees in a day.

When I work from home I just make coffee or lunch at home - I don't drive down to the strip mall for lunch. But when I go to the office, I eat lunch out with coworkers, and my bus drops me off right in front of the Starbucks so it's easy to stop in for coffee.

I doubt that the employees that the lost jobs from the businesses that served offices were all just displaced to the suburbs, but if you have a reference for that, I'd like to see it.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#224
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware that New Zealand are accepting immigrants right now. Which visa does NZ allow you to live there and work remotely?

You'll have to ask the Google execs https://www.businessinsider.com/google-exec-reportedly-worki... https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/08/06/google-...

So are these special cases or are the winners of remote work all fleeing to New Zealand?

Larry Page's son was transported by medavac to a hospital there. He's able to stay due to a visa with the requirement of a $7 million investment.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#225

This is partly why I keep thinking I should have become an electrician or a carpenter: the only real competition is local, there is always demand in cities. I knew a very wealthy electrician who started his own business and it seems to be a common path. Unlike programming where the common path is work for someone else and burn out.

I believe this has something to do with the statistical distribution of compensation - normal-like for electricians, dentists, and more power-like for coders and people from highly creative or sports fields.

Compensation for coders is probably closer to normal distribution than power. Otherwise the stuff on glassdoor/levels.fyi won't make sense.

Productivity (or impact of code written) though, it might as well be closer to the power law distribution

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple answer is that "whatever metrics you prefer to use" include qualifications that overseas engineers often cannot satisfy. Great engineers are human members of a team, and there's more to a team member than their LeetCode score (seriously?) and/or how many GitHub stars they've obtained. Just some examples off the top of my head: If you're building products to target US-based consumers, you don't need to prov…

> Great engineers are human members of a team, and there's more to a team member than their LeetCode score (seriously?) and/or how many GitHub stars they've obtained. I was referring to performance metrics in general, I didn't said those were the ones to take into account. I have definitely seen people here in HN referring to github stars, stackoverflow points, etc... as some sort of badge of honor. Also I find your…

It really depends on how much influence the engineer has over the final product, and whether it's intended to be marketed locally or globally. The GP's concerns is probably more relevant in small-ish teams developing a US-centric product.

I wouldn't say it's an overarching concern that would justify turning away overseas (disclaimer: not located in US myself) talent, but can't say he's totally wrong in specific contexts..

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#228
My anecdatum:

I worked from home as a freelance Japanese-to-English translator from 1986 to 2005. I lived all that time in or near Tokyo, Japan's business and government center where the majority of translation clients were located.

From 1986 to the mid-1990s, being physically located in Tokyo was a definite competitive advantage for me. While I knew some translators who worked remotely even then, having to send and receive manuscripts by fax or mail limited the types of work they could accept. For more complex jobs that required meetings, or for jobs that had reference materials that could not be sent by fax, being able to go to clients' offices allowed me to get enough higher-paying, often time-sensitive work to compensate for the higher costs of living in Tokyo.

Over the course of the 1990s, clients gradually went online and it became possible to receive and deliver more jobs in digital form. Around the year 2000, online translation companies started offering services from India and other low-wage countries, charging a tenth or less compared to what translators located in Japan were charging. The quality wasn't very good at first, but the price difference started to hurt the bottom lines of translators in Japan who did the most generic, commodified work.

By that point, I had a stable set of clients who relied on my experience and my knowledge about their businesses. They couldn't easily send the work to others, and I didn't feel any effect from remote competitors. The rise of remote competition was also not a factor in my decision to quit translation and take a university job in 2005. However, I know that if I try to return to freelance translation after I retire from the university in 2023, I will face a much more competitive environment than I did thirty years ago, living near Tokyo will no longer be an advantage, and it will probably be impossible for me to return to the same income level I used to have.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#229
post #22

The Winners of Remote Work don't live in the United States. The pandemic has accelerated globalization.

The pandemic accelerated the end of globalization. Globalization is over. The US will become less and less involved in the other countries -- even less than it is now -- and corporations will not be hiring teams that are mix of time zones, languages, and cultures. They will continue to hire people with credentials like those in charge, who look like, speak like, and have the same goals / culture as those in charge. A…

Your comment makes a lot of assertions without a single argument.

Re: The Winners of Remote Work

#230

This makes complete sense – just another example of power law dynamics of the internet. Short-term, we're going to see companies pursue a remote model in order to attract talent. This will be great for employees; live in Colorado, go on hikes and have a great lifestyle while commanding a SF salary! Longer-term, companies are going to realize that (except for the top ~10% of performers, who will always command a high…

Time zone 'compatibility' is extremely important Happily hire north/south, but too many hours east/west and people have to give up off-time just to have regular meetings

East/West can work well as well. I have a team in Vietnam with USA clients and we just do 1h overlap per day. Too many meetings may not be a good thing.
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