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Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

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Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#221

Post by mikaeluman »

adriancr wrote: post #111
mikaeluman wrote: post #76

The Biden administration doing this so haphazardly is irresponsible and with little to no reward - political or anything else. Moving away from US centric debates on the economic value of this war and attempt at governance; I fear Afghanistan will again become a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism atrocities and also put increased pressure on Europe in terms of migration. To the latter point, Europe is already on t…

> The Biden administration doing this so haphazardly is irresponsible and with little to no reward The same was said about Bush administration when the war was started. The same was said about the whole 'nation building' and troop surge and so on that happened until now... Judging by the lack of fighting back, nothing was achieved in 20 years and same thing would happen even if US stayed 20 more years...

Regardless of the downvotes I’ve received I think it’s pretty clear now after the fact that the withdrawal is a complete mess and failure.

Once you go in - you at least have a responsibility for the manner in which you get out.

In particular for all the allies that helped you for the past 20 years and now are at risk.

The Afghan army couldn’t fight back once Biden forbade all service technicians to stay in the country and maintain the machines and veichles, and certainly not when the army was trained to work in coordination with US Air Force which hastily left.

It’s a complete failure all around.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#222

Post by kazen44 »

hintymad wrote: post #213
BasDirks wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A failure of the Afghan people! Hahaha, OK. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And ah, okay, the war in Afghanistan was to liberate women? Meanwhile the US is in bed with the Saudi's.

Exactly. Afghanistan people want Taliban, yet we're telling them no no no, you want our democracy. The US was "a nation of hypocrites", and still is.

some people in afghanistan want the taliban yes,

the mainy problem in afghanistan is the fact that not many people feel a common sense of being an afghani. The country is extremely decentralised and rural. Most people only look at their villages and community, not at the bigger picture.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#223

Post by adriancr »

mikaeluman wrote: post #221
adriancr wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Biden administration doing this so haphazardly is irresponsible and with little to no reward The same was said about Bush administration when the war was started. The same was said about the whole 'nation building' and troop surge and so on that happened until now... Judging by the lack of fighting back, nothing was achieved in 20 years and same thing would happen even if US stayed 20 more years...

Regardless of the downvotes I’ve received I think it’s pretty clear now after the fact that the withdrawal is a complete mess and failure. Once you go in - you at least have a responsibility for the manner in which you get out. In particular for all the allies that helped you for the past 20 years and now are at risk. The Afghan army couldn’t fight back once Biden forbade all service technicians to stay in the countr…

> The Afghan army couldn’t fight back ... when the army was trained to work in coordination with US Air Force ...

Did their AK-47s need special US Air Force attention to work?

> Once you go in - you at least have a responsibility for the manner in which you get out.

The people living there had every chance to train and fight for their freedom. Apparently they did not want that.

The pull out was announced and negotiated 2nd of Feb 2020, they had ample time to prepare.

Did you have the same oppinions then as well regarding the pull out?, and did you do anything about it then?

Full press release from back then:

https://theweek.com/afghanistan-war/1003748/gop-takes-down-2...

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CONTINUED TO TAKE THE LEAD IN PEACE TALKS AS HE SIGNED A HISTORIC PEACE AGREEMENT WITH THE TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN, WHICH WOULD END AMERICA'S LONGEST WAR

On February 2, 2020 , the Trump Administration signed a preliminary peace agreement with the Taliban that sets the stage to end America's longest war.

Under the agreement , the U.S. will withdraw nearly 5,000 troops from the country in 135 days in exchange for a Taliban agreement to not allow Afghanistan to be used for transnational terrorism.

Time Magazine reported that other components of the agreement included an agreement that U.S. counterterrorism forces stay in the country, permissions for the CIA to operate in Taliban-held areas, and details of how the Taliban's promises to reduce violence will be monitored and verified.

The deal has been called the " best chance to end this conflict ," a " decisive move " towards peace, and " the best path " for the United States.

The war in Afghanistan is the longest in U.S. history, a conflict that has killed more than 3,500 U.S. and NATO troops and cost U.S. taxpayers nearly 900 billion dollars.

As part of the peace agreement, the Taliban and the Afghan government recently began historic peace, talks which would end decades of war that Afghanistan has consumed.

The negotiations will cover the terms of a " permanent ceasefire, the rights of women and minorities, and the disarmament of the country's many militia groups ."

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#224

Post by mikaeluman »

adriancr wrote: post #223
mikaeluman wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the downvotes I’ve received I think it’s pretty clear now after the fact that the withdrawal is a complete mess and failure. Once you go in - you at least have a responsibility for the manner in which you get out. In particular for all the allies that helped you for the past 20 years and now are at risk. The Afghan army couldn’t fight back once Biden forbade all service technicians to stay in the countr…

> The Afghan army couldn’t fight back ... when the army was trained to work in coordination with US Air Force ... Did their AK-47s need special US Air Force attention to work? > Once you go in - you at least have a responsibility for the manner in which you get out. The people living there had every chance to train and fight for their freedom. Apparently they did not want that. The pull out was announced and negotiat…

As Trump himself stated: intuitively you want to leave. But it’s all subject to an analysis of consequences. Something this administration completely blundered.

US still has forces and bases in Okinawa, South Korea and Germany etc. The scale and purpose of the operation of course changes as the context changes.

Merely withdrawing “before 9/11” (as if that is some relevant symbolism…) was irresponsible and clearly not even planned in any serious manner.

I don’t have any defense for the Afghan army, it’s government nor the people. Many have come to Europe under false statements of age and now we are stuck with them. Many turn to criminality simply because the European job market has no use for them. It’s a horrible result for all involved.

It’s well known that US presidents since Bush have wanted to leave and not spend more dollars on these foreign adventures. Many arguments can be made that more countries in Europe should have made larger contributions to the war against terrorism.

Again, it matters in the manner how you scale down, and what you leave behind.

Had it been Trump (or anyone else) - of course I would have been equally critical. This immediately affects my life in Sweden; and it’s just horrible to see the consequences in Afghanistan with the Taliban barbarians subjecting the people to their tyrannical rule.

It’s not hard to see this area turning into a place for terrorist plots again. And then what. At least the Trump administration clearly has that in mind. It’s hard to imagine what Biden has in mind - if anything at all.

Re: Taliban enter Kabul as Afghan government on brink of collapse

#225

Post by [deleted] »

mikaeluman wrote: post #224
adriancr wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Afghan army couldn’t fight back ... when the army was trained to work in coordination with US Air Force ... Did their AK-47s need special US Air Force attention to work? > Once you go in - you at least have a responsibility for the manner in which you get out. The people living there had every chance to train and fight for their freedom. Apparently they did not want that. The pull out was announced and negotiat…

As Trump himself stated: intuitively you want to leave. But it’s all subject to an analysis of consequences. Something this administration completely blundered. US still has forces and bases in Okinawa, South Korea and Germany etc. The scale and purpose of the operation of course changes as the context changes. Merely withdrawing “before 9/11” (as if that is some relevant symbolism…) was irresponsible and clearly not…

[deleted]
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