Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aren't casual vim users really vi users? I use emacs primarily but years ago created an extremely minimal (~20 lines) .vimrc to be installed by default on every server I work on. Some color, maybe indentation, I don't even know because I usually just use Emacs/TRAMP these days, but I'm nearly 100% sure that every config there works in vi. I would consider myself a casual vim/vi user in that I don't know the differenc…
I may be misremembering, but the biggest differences I remember between vi and vim as a semi-casual user is vi defaults to not supporting arrow keys, and doesn't tell you the mode it's in.
GNU nano is my editor of choice
221–230 of 236 posts
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
that’s literally what snobbery is
snobbery: the character or quality of being a snob. snob: a person who believes that their tastes in a particular area are superior to those of other people.
Nano is superior in that its easier to use. But it's certainly no where near as powerful as Vim or emacs.
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#223So I have a question and I'd like to understand if possible. To me programming isn't text editing. Granted, we use text to write most code outside of say Pike but effectively most programming is working with symbols right? Like .subst is meaningless as an operation on a string but .substring(0, 1) is meaningful. So I don't really get the advantage of such, to my mind, rudimentary text editors. At a minimum surely bei…
That said, I largely agree with most of what you are saying. I spent most of my time trying to get vim to be more like an IDE, and others do something similar to varying degrees (fuzzy open file, file trees, etc are among the most popular plugins for vim).
The reason I used vim all these years, and the reason I insist on using vim mode, is actually kind of related to something you said. Programming isn't text editing. Rather, doing anything on your computer is text editing! Me typing text into this comment box is text editing.
It's true that programming is a lot more about reading code and thinking than about writing code. That said, you're still writing code! And documentation, and many other things.
And vim, purely viewed as an alternative way of working with any text, is simply just superior. In the sense that the amount of time that passes between me thinking "I want to change this text here" to me being able to do it, is almost zero. I can instantly jump to a specific part of the code and make "surgical" edits to exactly what I want to change. This is common with all text editing, but especially programming - how often have you wanted to change the inside of certain parentheses combination nested inside a bigger paren (e.g. for an if statement or a function call?). Instead of spending any mental effort or time on executing this, this just flows automatically.
It's kind of like learning to use the shortcuts for copy and paste. Does this change something fundamentally about programming? No. Does it improve a little on taking an action you take many times a day? Yes. It "adds up" in terms of less things to think about.
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#224Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. Just say "nano is Linus Torvald's editor of choice" (which is true and will instantly shut down the debate)
He said he might switch to nano. It's not currently his editor of choice (unless there's something more recent). If I recall correctly he has been using uEmacs/PK ( https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs ). > I really need to switch over to something that is actually maintained and does utf-8 properly. Probably 'nano'. https://www.tag1consulting.com/blog/interview-linus-torvalds...
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#226The thesis of this post is roughly that nano, when configured, is enough of an editor for the author. Which is totally fine! People should be happy with their tools and not feel pressured by popularity to use what others use (vim, emacs being prime competitors in this case). Alas, nano (and pico before it) have a certain stigma among more "experienced" Unix users that more or less boils down to gatekeeping and snobbe…
> The thesis of this post is roughly that nano, when configured, is enough of an editor for the author. Which is totally fine! People should be happy with their tools and not feel pressured by popularity to use what others use (vim, emacs being prime competitors in this case). My advice to the author would be to give emacs an other shot. It can be configured to behave a lot like nano (and isn't modal), and runs in th…
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#227So I have a question and I'd like to understand if possible. To me programming isn't text editing. Granted, we use text to write most code outside of say Pike but effectively most programming is working with symbols right? Like .subst is meaningless as an operation on a string but .substring(0, 1) is meaningful. So I don't really get the advantage of such, to my mind, rudimentary text editors. At a minimum surely bei…
To me, programming is a mental task that requires overview and easy text manipulation. Most IDEs get in the way of me effectively navigating the code as it was originally organized, while still maintaing my overview. "Big" IDEs that clearly sacrifice text area for widgets, or shift text around to pop up distracting inline "help" are the worst offenders. I'm looking at you, Visual Studio. Common IDE tools like ho-to-d…
I feel exactly the same. I hate it when IDEs pop up some autocompletion suggestions that cover up exactly the part of the screen I was reading. Or reformat the code while I'm still typing, making the cursor jump around like crazy.
Automating such features means they're counterproductive in at least 5-10% of cases. I prefer having nothing automated but everything accessible in an efficient way. And that's why I don't care when people say their favorite IDE has a Vim plugin. That plugin won't remove the distractions, fix the tab behaviour or clean up the UI. The controls are only a fraction of what makes Vim the editor it is.
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>To me programming isn't text editing. >>I can see that there's not much difference between an ide and editor for new languages but why do people prefer text editing and prioritize typing speed where IDEs exist? Does an editor create a sort of flow or deeper state since lack of tooling requires deeper mental context? Simple. Programs should themselves be programmed(Generated). Anything that has a structure should be…
> Simple. Programs should themselves be programmed(Generated). Anything that has a structure should be generated, never written. This is the idea behind compilers/assemblers. And if you extend that idea, that's true for some thing like Python too. If the code -- I assume that's what you mean by program -- is generated, the code is not the true source of the program. The true code should be the code that describe or i…
Nobody should write fileopen-read-close repeatedly over and over again. The editor should write this kind of code for you.
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#229*when editing in a terminal session.
Re: GNU nano is my editor of choice
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing about that “snobbery and gate keeping” is that it’s not at all that. Maybe not everyone’s experience mimics mine but I felt like people looked down at me a bit when I was 16 for using nano on the command line. But, and here’s the kicker, if I hadnt been pushed into vim I would not be nearly as productive now. There have been countless times in my career as a sysadmin/devops/SRE where I’ve been stuck with ho…
> But, and here’s the kicker, if I hadnt been pushed into vim I would not be nearly as productive now. It's interesting how the winds have changed toward Vim advocacy in a quarter century or so. I switched to Vim around 1994, amidst a definitely anti-vi climate. In the university environment, almost nobody used vi. I remember nothing but vi trash talk. The computing environment was proprietary Unix without a whole lo…
I still laugh at the word vi being the translation from Aztec of "how do I get out of this shit"
For context, I started with Linux in 1993, by making changes to the kernel. Vi was the editor of choice and I took it like I do with cultures of the countries I visit: I keep the comments to myself.
So I suffered in silence until I discovered joe (an editor based on Wordpress key bindings) and that was a great change.
I know 3 or 4 commands in vi, enough to make the changes five times a year when I have to use it somewhere