For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm • Hacker News Board

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#221

Post by legerdemain » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

I used to walk to the office. Now, I need to buy office furniture and use up space in my own apartment, which my partner and I used for something else before. Either that, or rent a desk at a co-working space that I will need to drive to. (I don't own a car yet, but probably will need to buy one soon anyway to pick up groceries and restaurant meals.)

I used to eat almost all my meals at work. Meals were subsidized by my company, and they were a lot healthier than restaurant food or takeout. That's several thousand dollars per year of compensation that I'm not getting anymore, not to mention time I didn't use to spend on cooking. Not to mention compensation for gym membership and fitness classes that I'm not getting anymore.

The work gym has closed, and I don't have space to set up a decent home gym. After all, I now have to use up space on a home office!

Working from home for me has meant losing space in my home, losing free healthy meals daily, and losing my shape. I admire y'all who can stay buff with one left kettlebell and practice breast stroke on the carpet, but I can't, and even if I could, this is a lot worse than what I used to enjoy.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#222

Post by xaduha » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

phreeza wrote: post #53

The arguments in this comment section have been rehashed so many times on HN now it is becoming hilarious. Who would have thought that office vs remote is the emacs vs vim of the 2020s.

What people lack in these threads is workers' solidarity. It's not like offices are going away or anyone would be forced to WFH when pandemic is over.

What does average Joe get by opposing it? A pat on the head when this is all done? There is collective leverage here, use it to get more for everyone.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#223

Post by ijidak » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

>Food is also big draw. Now I have to worry about what I eat every day and make my food

Haha. Not sure which country you're from, but this definitely sounds like a first world problem.

Your statement tells me that you could afford to only eat food others prepared for you in the past. (Not sure if that was a free office cafeteria)

For many that is expensive and could even be an unhealthy way of life.

I've never really thought of going into an office because pre-prepared food is easier to get. That's a new one.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#224

Post by brainless » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:43 AM UTC

Remote work is not for everyone. I am saying this as a remote software engineer for a decade. I don't like offices, I don't like those little gossip corners, I don't like commute.

I love to travel, have a small corner at a cafe where no one knows me, put on headphones and work. In the last 14 years I have moved 12 times. It says something about me I had not realized for a while.

I build my own small routines, like walking, cleaning the house, cooking, daily grocery. Currently I live in a small Himalayan village and I am starting to build engineering for a super early stage US based startup. Met the founder through On Deck. I love my routine, and I love staying outside socially busy places. I have anxiety issues.

Living in a village, people assume I must be a less productive person. My US founder worked with me for a couple weeks and decided it is in best interest if I lead all engineering. She/he is ex Uber, really high caliber person. There are people like me, I have met them, I know them. They all want to live away from busy places and do not like offices.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#225

Post by genezeta » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:44 AM UTC

I'm doing interviews now and, naturally, the question comes up. Am I looking for a remote position? Would I mind that the position is only partially so? Or that it is fully on-site?

Obviously it's just anecdotal data, and I'm in Europe. So take this with a grain of salt, but I'd say:

* There has undoubtedly been a big rise in remote positions, but not a huge one. Many of these seem to come from companies willing to hire people living in other cities/countries, given how they write the ads.

* A lot do mention that they are most certainly going back to the office soon or soon-ish, or that they have already started going back at least partially.

* Many have taken the option of partial remote. Most of these have stricter "2 days per week" or "Mondays on-site, rest of the week at home" rules, but some are still experimenting and are more flexible.

* Very few offer the option for the employee to choose, whatever their decision is.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#226

Post by PaywallBuster » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:44 AM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

fitness:

office: go to an office, sit in a chair 8h a day with barely any breaks.

home: get up any time you want, walk around, lay in bed, go outside buy something, no one looking or making comments.

productivity:

office: too many people moving around and talking, use headphones to isolate yourself

home: no one around you, play music in the background, relax

food:

I think it very much depends on the company you working for. Many companies don't offer lunch, and you're going outside. What's the difference from doing it from home?

Agree with the low productivity and social, but that's temporary because covid. You're forced to stay home and unable to have any fun and social times.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#227

Post by whitepaint » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:46 AM UTC

Power naps, workouts, travelling / working from different places almost whenever I want. For me, it's just really really much better working remotely. I don't think I'll ever come back from this. And I hope my circumstances will allow me to continue having this luxury.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#228

Post by mojuba » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:46 AM UTC

test1235 wrote: post #185

mojuba wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, that means there must be an archive.is link for it and of course there is one: https://archive.is/qK9Mk

OT, but how do archive sites work? I assume they don't have full subscriptions to everything, so how do they get around all the different paywalls?

In this case the article is available apparently if you disable JavaScript in your browser. Many media web sites show the full text to the search engines but hide them with trivial HTML overlays once visited by a human. Sometimes your browser's Reader can show you the full text (though it's not the case with the Economist for example)

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#229

Post by birdyrooster » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:46 AM UTC

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #133

I can't wait to get back to the office. I don't have dedicated remote work space and that really eats into my productivity. Also being home and having no external pressure to keep working I can already see any breaks people tend to take are way longer than what they would take at the office. (Now someone is going to tell me that this just shows that people need more breaks, but I don't believe that) It also helps wit…

My biggest asset as an employee is my ability to befriend and network with boomer middle managers. That is my real job. The software is just a part of the larger game. If I am remote, I will make less money as a result. The only reason I want to go into the office is to leverage my social capital because I want to bring home the most money for my family.

Re: For programmers, remote working is becoming the norm

#230

Post by Cookingboy » Thu, Aug 12, 2021, 8:46 AM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #177

Cookingboy wrote: post #57

As preferable as WFH is for many and as productive as many people can be while working remote, at the end of the day, you can't change human nature. There is a reason why companies like Google are doubling down in Silicon Valley real estate. They believe that the best, most innovative type of work are the results of organic discussions and unscheduled, unplanned, casual human interactions. So many cool ideas and new…

Couldn't this be an example of naturalist fallacy? Or also false dichotomy? Let alone that I'm not sure I agree that what you're defining as "human nature" is even "human nature," but perhaps just some aspect of the interaction of some kinds of people in some cultures. Taiwan's on a soft lockdown right now, and through g0v we've had a couple online hackathons via gather.town that went swell in my opinion, with lots o…

It's interesting how you used Taiwan and hackathons as example.

Despite their successes, I'll bet a decent amount of money that after Covid is over, many hackathons will resume to be in-person events.

In fact, think of this the other way, would people in Taiwan be happy if they hear they will be locked down forever? Of course not right? So people obviously derive some value from human interaction. And that value, as little as it is for some people, will very often translate over to working relationship.

>we didn't have spoken language for a very, very long time, and we interacted "just fine" without it insomuch as our entire ancestral history for a couple hundred million years survived to the point where homo sapiens could finally branch off and eventually figure out complex language. Same goes for writing. So, that's kind of the problem with naturalist arguments.

A simple counter-argument to all your examples: when something new comes along, they rarely fully replace what's there before, but merely augmented it or expanding the horizon. We didn't replace gestures and body languages with spoken language, and we didn't replace spoken language with written text. Technology will no doubt expand our interaction paradigm with new methods, but it won't fully eliminate the benefit of old ones.