The part where "threshold reached, all content visible and unlocked" is what worries me. That means, any content can be visible and unlocked to anybody, and the only barrier is some threshold where Apple pinky-swears it would never look unless it is passed. We all know how well it works with NSA wiretapping, and even if Apple right now is sincerely committed to hold their promise, they could decide otherwise - or being forced to - at any point in the future. Once there's a door and there's a key, they key will be used to open the door, and it will be used for any future purpose the key owner wants to.
In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
221–230 of 430 posts
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#222Here's how it will probably go wrong; because privacy abuses always sit on a slippery slope: Detect CP Detect child abuse Detect signs of child abuse Detect signs of abuse Detect signs of violent crime Detect violent crime Detect crimes Detect "crimes" People not believing me, then tell one example of a privacy encroaching policy that didn't expand its original scope of "think of the children" and "terrorism". The wo…
Apple is already helping both the FBI and CCP illegally spy on their citizen-subjects. Most iCloud data in the US is stored unencrypted to aid the US national spying, and iCloud data in China is stored on CCP-accessible servers for the same reason. This is no different. Apple knows which way the wind blows.
The difference now is that they couldn't be used officially and at least, in principle, three letters agencies had to go through a legal process for unmasking.
Now there's a constant search warrant on your phone that can be used against you in a court of law.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think asking ourselves if this is a slippery slope is a valid part of discussing what's actually happening right now.
Appealing to the slippery slope is itself a fallacy. "While this image may be insightful for understanding the character of the fallacy, it represents a misunderstanding of the nature of the causal relations between events. Every causal claim requires a separate argument. Hence, any "slipping" to be found is only in the clumsy thinking of the arguer, who has failed to provide sufficient evidence that one causally exp…
What's actually happening is that a mechanism is being introduced that makes it easy to censor anything Apple wants censored. Apple promises to only use it for child pornography.
Apple, however, is still not a sovereign state, and as such must bow to the wishes of actual sovereign states. Sovereign states have proven again and again that they will grab as much power as they can, and doing it insidiously, in the form of a private database of hashes of undesired content, is especially attractive to them.
This is not a hypothetical. For a real-world example look to England where its nation-wide internet blocking system is already used beyond its original scope. Or think of what countries like China will certainly do with such a mechanism. Scope creep, in the form of power grabs by nation states, is a realistic concern, based on vast historical experience, not a fallacy.
Apart from the concern of scope creep, there is also the concern of false positives. When deployed on such a scale, there will undoubtedly be perfectly legimate images being flagged. I'm not happy about my phone containing software that's always vigilant, ready to ruin my life over a false positive.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could be throwing a bone to politicians who say E2E encryption protects criminals. Not saying I agree, but I could see this being a compromise on Apple's part.
They can’t be this stupid, right? They should know this has huge security implications. I can’t see how it can be justified for some political brownie point.
Have you paid attention lately? Politicians only want to react to the lowest common denominator. Your average Joe/Joette doesn't know jack about encryption or hashing. So to them this is just tech mumbo jumbo and "thinking of the children" and they simply won't care that it's 1 step removed government spying. After it happens China has full backend door to upload Pooh hashes to ban political dissidents using memes. Next comes the FBI and CIA with their own hashes to find "the terrorists" and on and on. This is just a toe in the door for governments to abuse the iphone and iphone users and Apple doesn't seem to care.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are not here by accident. Those are symptoms of a public that doesn't care. We have been explaining the consequences of each choice for techs during the last 20 years. I've had the talk with my friends and familly many times. Very patiently. Very nicely. Nobody cares. It's just an annoyance for them. And it requires an enormous more amounr of energy to live your live this way than not caring. Even more if you gott…
How would the public demonstrate caring about this?
Acting concerned in discussions would be a start. Choosing what services to use, what product to buy, what media to consume, not just because that's the easiest. Limit their involvment in this, even professionnally, if they can.
It doesn't need to be perfect. People have constraints, and life is hard.
But politicians and busines people don't care about being good or bad. They just follow the wind.
Now being gay is trendy, well, they are pro gay.
More people care about organic, they sell organic.
Just caring a little, demonstarting a little that we disaprove and want something else orient their decisions. Because their decisions are not driven by moral, it's just business.
Also, even if you don't do any of this, and I can believe I have to even state this, not teasing or shaming those who do would be an improvement.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is your deal. You are out here arguing in bad faith all over this thread. What is your motivation?
What's the bad faith? What's single thing have I said that is incorrect? It's not breaking E2E encryption. No one is locking people up for political photos. It's not using facial recongition. I don't like FUD driving discussions. I think we need to have serious discussions about this technology. I think people that don't understand it shouldn't participate....
Breaking encryption is not a "requirement" of a backdoor.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think the suggestion is that a hash of a police uniform will be used to convict of CP but rather the idea that a new law will be passed that - in order to protect the police from 'harassment' - will outlaw taking pictures of the police. So in that case in discovery the picture of a police officer would be evidence that you broke that hypothetical law. The technology deployed to protect the children opens up t…
> would be evidence that you broke that hypothetical law Hypothetical situations are not an argument to real world discussions. Sure, if that happened, it'd be terrible. But, that's not happening....
Police: "Did he murder you yet? No?! Stop wasting our time with hypothetical situations and come back when you've been murdered for real!"
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no viable option if you want a quality smartphone. Androids spy on you already. Apple will be spying on you. The dark side of economies of scale.
Android ROMs like GrapheneOS do not spy on you, verifiably.
A good first step, but that the public won't take. We've seen it with linux on the desktop already.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
I must have the same misunderstanding. I don’t know why this has to be device side for iCloud photos..
Because security researchers imply Apple eventually plan to turn this on for all local photos, even with icloud turned off.
all local files is what I predict.
Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features
#230Unfortunalty if our experience from the past with such events teaches us anything, it's that a minority of us will stop using apple products (or keep not doing it) but the rest of the world will quickly forget and carry on as usual. Worse, if your decision to not use an iphone makes others people life slightly anoying for 2 seconds a week, many will bash on you. As a FOSS user with no FB nor whatsapp account that ask…
There is no viable option if you want a quality smartphone. Androids spy on you already. Apple will be spying on you. The dark side of economies of scale.
There's puri.sm, pinephone, fairphone with /e/.