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Airyx OS

airyx.org

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Re: Airyx OS

#221

Post by bmn__ »

queuebert wrote: post #198
bmn__ wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problems continue to be • C being a shitty language that does not force or even encourage programmers to handle errors • implementation knowledge about file system technology is generally stuck in the 1990s • disk controller hardware lying to the OS to make them appear more performant than they really are visit https://danluu.com & ctrl+f "files"

Can you elaborate on the second point?

courses offered by polytechnics and online learning platforms not being up-to-date, restricted and uneven access to expert implementers

Re: Airyx OS

#222

Post by nobleach »

michaelmrose wrote: post #208
Bilal_io wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably cheaper and easier for apple to kill them while small/young

They haven't done anything illegal or immoral. Giant company tries to use nonsense lawsuits to illegally destroy competition doesn't make for great PR.

Yeah, if they took the path of ARDI's Executor from the 90's, it IS possible to have a completely clean-room emulation (of Apple) without violating any intellectual property.

Re: Airyx OS

#223

Post by chaosharmonic »

This is kind of an aside, but can mods edit links the way they can post titles?

This is routing to a plain HTTP URL for some reason despite a valid HTTPS one existing.

Re: Airyx OS

#224

Post by eafer »

bmn__ wrote: post #138
fn1 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how hard it is to implement a modern filesystem that won't eat users' data. Why is that so hard? Because of edge-cases? Caching/Timing considerations?

The big problems continue to be • C being a shitty language that does not force or even encourage programmers to handle errors • implementation knowledge about file system technology is generally stuck in the 1990s • disk controller hardware lying to the OS to make them appear more performant than they really are visit https://danluu.com & ctrl+f "files"

> C being a shitty language that does not force or even encourage programmers to handle errors

I don't see where this is coming from. Most of the world's top filesystems are written in C, and they work just fine. Maybe other languages could get better results, but it's hard to say with so little data.

> implementation knowledge about file system technology is generally stuck in the 1990s

If you are talking about me, that might be true, I'm relatively new to this and still learning. But there's definitely people out there with some serious "implementation knowledge". And tools like xfstests did not exist in the 1990s, that makes a huge difference.

Re: Airyx OS

#225

Post by eafer »

atombender wrote: post #123
eafer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I wasn't trying to diss FreeBSD. It would probably have been better to write my driver for fuse to make it portable, but it's too far along at this point.

Out of interest, why can't file system implementations be portable? A shared core that exists as a library that can be tested in userland, and which can then be used by a lightweight shim that implements the kernel-facing interfaces. But I haven't seen any file systems implemented this way.

Shims in the kernel seem a bit anti-social, since all module developers are expected to contribute to the shared core code. Of course it can be done, and it has been done. But I think FUSE is better if all you care about is portability, and you don't mind the heavy performance cost. My module could be ported for FUSE of course, but it's a lot more work than it may seem, the kernel interfaces are too alien compared to a userland library.

Re: Airyx OS

#226

Post by slaughtr »

StevePerkins wrote: post #155
qwerty456127 wrote: post #90

No screenshots for a GUI-centric OS? Seriously?

The OS doesn't exist today. Mostly likely it never will. Like half of the projects posted to HN, this is "aspirational". A landing page for a project that someone would sure like to do.

Sure it does, they link to the developer preview: https://github.com/mszoek/airyx/releases

Re: Airyx OS

#227

Post by seltzered_ »

TchoBeer wrote: post #194
hulitu wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a general trend in SW development. If it works, fix it. It seems to make everyone except users happy.

I had a buddy who had a sort-of designer-developer role who would say "if it ain't broke don't don't fix it"

You have to think about it in terms of form-factor changes/evolution.

There may be things users have grown to 'tolerate' that were accustomed to using only a desktop environment that may surprise those who might've managed possibly faster workflows on something like a tablet.

Re: Airyx OS

#228

Post by StevePerkins »

slaughtr wrote: post #226
StevePerkins wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OS doesn't exist today. Mostly likely it never will. Like half of the projects posted to HN, this is "aspirational". A landing page for a project that someone would sure like to do.

Sure it does, they link to the developer preview: https://github.com/mszoek/airyx/releases

That is essentially a repackaging of helloSystem (https://hellosystem.github.io/docs), which itself is a FreeBSD spin with a custom display manager.

The "source code" in this repo consists entirely of Makefiles and build scripts for working with helloSystem, along with a few FreeBSD header includes that were copied verbatim.

I mean, more power and best of luck to the author here. But let's not exaggerate the act of forking another repo and tinkering with its build process. All of the items in the post here (e.g. macOS application and filesystem compatibility) are still twinkles in the author's eye at this point.

Re: Airyx OS

#229

Post by greyhair »

eafer wrote: post #54
3np wrote: post #4

More information and motivation in the git repo[0], the link to which I didn't spot easily in the site header. The main design goals are: * source compatibility with macOS applications (i.e. you could compile a Mac application on Airyx and run it) * similar GUI metaphors and familiar UX (file manager, application launcher, top menu bar that reflects the open application, etc) * compatible with macOS filesystems (HFS+…

> compatible with macOS filesystems (HFS+ and APFS) How far along is this? I think she's underestimating how hard it is to implement a modern filesystem that won't eat users' data. I've been working on a Linux APFS driver[0] for several years, and it's not fully functional yet. It's a pity that she is working with FreeBSD, or it could have been of use to her. [0] https://github.com/eafer/linux-apfs-rw

A lot of us have long been tired of the "all things must be Linux" mantra. It is nice having options, having other environments.

Re: Airyx OS

#230

Post by dmitriid »

neilalexander wrote: post #118
dmitriid wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just a bad idea. They'll never get even close, and those screenshots on Imgur prove it. It's a great idea. Because developing your own look and feel for the entire OS is an enormous task. This way you at least have a foundation to build upon.

It's also an enormous task to replicate one. User interface design isn't just about rounded edges and aqua chrome, it's about all of the small details: spacing, scale, padding, margins, font rendering and hinting, colour, arrangement, target zones, interactive feedback, discoverability. While I am delighted that there are people out there trying to build open source desktops that are more friendly and attractive, it…

> You can't just duplicate what you think you see. You have to also understand why it was designed that way in the first place.

Of course, that should be the main driving force: to understand the why and the how.

All I'm saying is that it's easier to do by copying an existing design than trying to come up with your own. Fake it till you make it is also a part of the process :D

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