Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 531 posts

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#221

Post by tzs »

m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

> It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children.

I'm a bit skeptical of that explanation in the US because schools close for 3 months every summer, without an accompanying large number of women quitting their jobs.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#222

Post by heurisko »

fallenspec wrote: post #89
BossingAround wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narrative, that is a huge red flag. Similarly, the inability to see shades of gray (e.g. "using MySQL is always utterly stupid, you should never use it in favor of Postgres") which OP demonstrates with thei…

> OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all. > If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narra…

In addition to Matt Hancock, there was also the case of exemptions from quarantine for UEFA football VIPs. [1]

I think it's right the UK is returning to personal responsibility, especially as many of the rules haven't seemed to be science-based e.g. you must wear a mask entering a pub, but you are allowed to remove the mask while eating seated.

It's health-theatre, rather than virus prevention.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/18/vips-to-be-...

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#223

Post by kd0amg »

jen20 wrote: post #102
bko wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a market economy there is no such thing as a "shortage" of workers. You just don't want to meet the market price of the workers with that skill set. You could imagine a widget factory whose economics rely on paying employees X, it doesn't mean there's a "shortage" of workers, but the workers demand a wage that makes your work unprofitable. The fact is a lot of people are paid not to work through generous covid-rel…

> In a market economy there is no such thing as a "shortage" of workers You need a license to drive a truck in the UK (the actual subject of the article). It takes a minimum of two months acquire [1]. Even paying a thousand dollars an hour does not magic more qualified candidates into existence at short notice as you appear to propose. The reason for the shortage is the trivially foreseeable effects of idiotic hard-l…

Raising prices doesn't only move toward equilibrium by increasing the quantity supplied -- it also decreases the quantity demanded.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#224

Post by RHSeeger »

effingwewt wrote: post #213
vladvasiliu wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you. However, it may not (always) be that simple. The media here in France reports that some industries, in particular restaurants, are having a hard time finding employees, with not enough people applying and even employees who were there before Covid hit leaving. I don't know how actually true this is, but when they (the media) ask people why they won't go back, the main reason doesn't seem to b…

Here in California every restaurant/fast food place is hiring. They all list the things they offer (PTO, 401k-no matching what you put in, and that's it). What they don't put on the signs is what they pay (minimum wage every single time), or the hours (always part time, always weekends, mostly if not always nights. But obviously it's just that no one wants to work, it couldn't possibly be because no one wants part-ti…

Without trying to counteract your points about the pay/work/parttime/etc.... It's worth noting that a large number of restaurant owners make very little money. The margins/profits in that industry are razor thin. So the owner making less wouldn't be helpful, or even an option for many of them.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#225

Post by njfgyjnc »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #196
heurisko wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the stories I often hear, is that people have decided to move house to the countryside, as they are now able to work remotely. I don't know how true this is: are these people not concerned if their employer decides to reopen offices and require employees to work in the office again when the pandemic inevitably ends?

> One of the stories I often hear, is that people have decided to move house to the countryside, as they are now able to work remotely. This is the primary trick that journalists use in these stories: They find a couple examples of people doing something, interview them, and then pretend those people are a sample of a much larger movement. They don’t cite statistics or numbers, however easy to find, because putting a…

> Using the “people moved to the countryside” example: Did we have a surplus of empty houses in the countryside before the pandemic?

Actually yes. Before the pandemic, in the area I grew up in (Southern Appalachians) it was common for a house sale to take years, because there was indeed a surplus.

Remember ten years ago all the articles about urbanization and the young people leaving the country and suburbs to live in the city? That was real and the more remote places did in fact have a surplus of housing stock

I've personally seen one family move to the absolute boonies from a large metro and they just guessed that the breadwinner would be able to stay remote or find a new remote friendly employer if forced to move back. The latter happens

I'd probably have more anecdotes if I knew more than like five people

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#226

Post by dcolkitt »

thechao wrote: post #148
apeace wrote: post #144

Is it worth considering whether increased/extended unemployment benefits are a factor in the employee shortage? The article mentions employees on "furlough" who are "biding their time". I'm not from the UK, but this appears to mean the government is paying much of their wage while they are not working. Anecdotally (in the U.S.) I know several people who have remained on unemployment as long as they possibly can, desp…

If labor is a market, laborers are at a fundamental disadvantage compared to employers when it comes to clearance: the employer has an asymmetric advantage in its ability to wait to hire someone; laborers are a lot less capable. I don’t know that unemployment is a good solution, but I think it speaks volumes that people might be using it to balance the standard inequity.

This is a common refrain, but I doubt many who say have actually actual experience as an employer. In many businesses the inability to staff leads to existential threat to the entire business.

If you're a restaurant and can't seat customers or a SaaS startup and can't keep your service uptime, you'll go out of business very quickly. That represents millions in enterprise value. In contrast an employer who gets fired, but is otherwise competent, might be looking at a few weeks of unemployment and a couple thousand in lost income.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#227

Post by eropple »

nuker wrote: post #217
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the employer perspective: Why would I try to compete with unemployment benefits that are ending in a few months? The situation is temporary and has obviously causal factors that are coming to an end soon (unemployment benefits, school out for summer). Journalists seem to be going out of their way to ignore these and pretend that something else is happening.

> with unemployment benefits that are ending in a few months? I don't think so. Zeta variant is coming.

I hadn't heard of this, but the WHO seems to have indicated that this is no longer a variant of interest, let alone a variant of concern.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#228

Post by eropple »

RHSeeger wrote: post #224
effingwewt wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in California every restaurant/fast food place is hiring. They all list the things they offer (PTO, 401k-no matching what you put in, and that's it). What they don't put on the signs is what they pay (minimum wage every single time), or the hours (always part time, always weekends, mostly if not always nights. But obviously it's just that no one wants to work, it couldn't possibly be because no one wants part-ti…

Without trying to counteract your points about the pay/work/parttime/etc.... It's worth noting that a large number of restaurant owners make very little money. The margins/profits in that industry are razor thin. So the owner making less wouldn't be helpful, or even an option for many of them.

Then shouldn't they be working more personally? Or shouldn't they no longer be in business? (And yeah, I'm well aware how much many small restaurant owners work. See door number two.)

People around here talk a lot about unsustainable business models. I don't think it's really any better if it's offloading its unsustainability onto its workforce, which is what's being described here.

From where I stand, as somebody whose career can be described (cynically but not incorrectly) as largely rendering people unemployed, there's a tension here that's only going to be resolved through the acknowledgement that there isn't actually a need for everyone to work to make the whole thing "go", and unsustainably poor work with poverty as the retribution for refusing to participate (as well as the reward for participating) is not a politically stable position.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#229

Post by nicoburns »

bobthepanda wrote: post #200
nicoburns wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine a lit of these people have gotten permission and made arrangements with their employers in advance.

That being said, this is not necessarily easy even for large employers, because until now there wasn't a need to clarify if workers were subject to the income, payroll etc. taxes and employee protection, health insurance contracts of their working or resident state. It is totally possible to be a large Fortune 500 company in the US and not be set up to do paperwork in, I don't know, Alaska or Wyoming or Idaho.

I guess that's an issue if you move states. I'm in the UK, and I know someone who moved 8 hours away to a different part of the UK. Would never have even been considered pre-covid, but the evidence that they could work productively from home was there: they'd been doing it for a year already! They're a manager too, so regular collaboration is a given. It's just all online now.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#230

Post by dazc »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #174
encryptluks2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on I disagree... COVID-19 made a lot of people reconsider their priorities. If you only had limited time left with a family member, would you really want to spend your time working a crappy job while struggling to pay rent? Pretty soon I imagine the government will start doing something like…

If only there was a better way to get people to work shitty jobs... like maybe paying them more...

I agree but I think a lot of the problem also is that there were/are many businesses that are not finacially viable and cheap labour has carried them along thus far. Now the tide has gone out they are facing reality.
Post reply on HN