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Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

bbc.com

221–230 of 256 posts

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "The reality is more mundane: technology is just a fancy word for tool, and the only thing the guillotine ever freed anyone from was tomorrow." Did you just come up with that? :O

It's true. If an existential threat is elected/takes office the guillotine can free us all from the tyranny of tomorrow. >Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. Freedom fighter vs terrorist is merely a question of narrative.

I wasn't being cynical. I am just impressed by the talent at wording it.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#222

I’ve never met a person inspired by what we thought the Internet would be in the 90s who isn’t sad that it went the way it did. I suspect the more idealistic of the cryptocurrency people will also feel nostalgic when Goldman and JP Morgan run blockchain in a few years. It’s extremely tempting, especially to technical people, to believe that some piece of technology will create net freedom and equality. The reality is…

Wayne Dyer used to sometimes take diametrically opposed criticism of his books, photocopy it and send it to the other party — together with the four simple words: "You may be right." Here's the other envelope: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27697973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27528350 The modern day equivalent to the old internet isn't YouTube or Facebook. That's the equivalent to Cable TV. It's rathe…

I was there too and I don't agree. Internet pre 2k and now are completely different worlds.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an interesting theory, any data to support it? Has this Cernovich guy done stuff like this in the past?

I have as much data to support my theory as the other person does to support theirs. All we know is the page isn't in the results on Google. And yes, Cernovich has a history of PR stunts.

You might have a point if this wasn't just the most recent of a giant pile of censorship from Google.

Medical doctors can't discuss possible treatments for COVID.

Medical doctors can't discuss side effects from vaccines.

Senate testimony where an alleged Ukrainian whistleblower is named is banned. If you even say the name, not even in any relevant context, you will get banned.

The list goes on and on. There is nothing "open" about the Google web. But again, I don't believe there's anything I or anyone else could say that would change your mind.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have as much data to support my theory as the other person does to support theirs. All we know is the page isn't in the results on Google. And yes, Cernovich has a history of PR stunts.

You might have a point if this wasn't just the most recent of a giant pile of censorship from Google. Medical doctors can't discuss possible treatments for COVID. Medical doctors can't discuss side effects from vaccines. Senate testimony where an alleged Ukrainian whistleblower is named is banned. If you even say the name, not even in any relevant context, you will get banned. The list goes on and on. There is nothin…

It’s a sad state of affairs. It’s like they keep saying “stop hitting me!” while they hit you. My little brother used to do that.

Google isn’t big brother, Google is my little brother.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right on the not selling data directly. I should have been more precise. Google is in the business of collecting data and selling advertising using that data. For the purpose of making money. Search hasn’t been part of their purpose in decades. Let me ask you this, has search gotten better or worse in the last 5 - 10 years? Has their data collection gotten more invasive or less over the last 5 - 10 years? I th…

Search hasn't gotten worse. If you have objective measures as opposed to subject personal anecdotes, present them.

Subjective personal anecdotes are 100% valid forms of data.

But since you asked: Compare Google search engine results over nearly two decades and a trend emerges: Results are filled with advertising and non-Google results are lower down. https://wapo.st/3dHj2Xf

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search hasn't gotten worse. If you have objective measures as opposed to subject personal anecdotes, present them.

Subjective personal anecdotes are 100% valid forms of data. But since you asked: Compare Google search engine results over nearly two decades and a trend emerges: Results are filled with advertising and non-Google results are lower down. https://wapo.st/3dHj2Xf

That's still N=1. He uses a single example, product search for t-shirts, but doesn't look at all the ways search actually got better. It's cherry picking.

There are firms which evaluate search quality by employing a huge corpus of queries and human raters. I trust those more than someone running a single query for a commercial search.

The reality is, the Web didn't stay static. If Google 2020 used the same exact search algorithm as Google of 2000, the results would be worse, because of all of the massive amount of noise and spam that's been added to the web since then, to say nothing of adversarial attacks. Google of 2020 is doing a hell of a lot to maintain freshness, index an exponentially bigger web, and defeat pretty much an army of blackhat SEO adversaries from spoiling it.

It's like saying Email spam is worse in Gmail or other clients. Compared to what? 30 years ago, there wasn't much spam being sent and spammers were unsophisticated. The fact that you see almost none these days, but still a few slip through, compared to standard IMAP in 1993 is irrelevent, because the email population was tiny back then.

I'll admit that the product search category in queries has over-the-top ads. But then again, this is the one area where even going back to 2000 era, Sergey and Larry justified ads by saying say that serving up keyword based ads is in a way, satisfying query intent. If I type in "toyota cars" and I get ads for 3 toyota car dealerships nearby, why is this completely wrong? It's very likely a strong buy signal.

Personally, when I'm doing product search, I go straight to Amazon, or I use Shopping.google.com (or Froogle back in the old days)

I can do my own cherry picking. For example, when looking for actual information, especially long tail information, Google search is way better than it was in the early 2000s, and unmatched by things like DDG.

Compare long-tail search vs DuckDuckGo. Try for example "the movie where a robot kid flies a spy plane". Google returns D.A.R.Y.L as top item. DDG doesn't even have it in the top 10. This is way bette than it was in 2000.

"who wrote the c64 game mule". DDG just gives me Wikipedia. Google gives me the Answer + Wikipedia plus related games to explore.

Or try "what is the moment of inertia of a disk", on DDG the snippet displayed in the first result is far less useful than the snippet Google displays. Plus Google shows actual diagrams in the results too.

Look, I'll be the first to admit they increased the # of ads for some queries (mostly product search, real estate, travel, etc) and are using questionable dark patterns that make ads harder to discern from non-ad content. But quite obviously to me, the non-ad query results have gotten ALOT better from 20 years ago, and it's just false memory nostalgia about how queries use to work on a much smaller, and non-commercial web, that thinks they were better.

I've been on the internet/web since the 80s. It was a marvelous time in the old days before commercialization, but also in many ways, it was far less useful and worse.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#229
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And isn't Google Glass redirected at companies were it enjoys (a moderate) success?

Correct. It’s been utilized in a highly limited capacity in enterprise conditions, like manufacturing. The Community Edition (aka consumer version) was killed.

And not because of lack of demand because of fears we would be recorded everywhere. Fast forward and we are recorded everywhere anyways.

Re: Sundar Pichai warns of threats to internet freedom

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Subjective personal anecdotes are 100% valid forms of data. But since you asked: Compare Google search engine results over nearly two decades and a trend emerges: Results are filled with advertising and non-Google results are lower down. https://wapo.st/3dHj2Xf

That's still N=1. He uses a single example, product search for t-shirts, but doesn't look at all the ways search actually got better. It's cherry picking. There are firms which evaluate search quality by employing a huge corpus of queries and human raters. I trust those more than someone running a single query for a commercial search. The reality is, the Web didn't stay static. If Google 2020 used the same exact sear…

Look, I wanted to keep this debate going, but your reference to MULE totally derailed my train of thought. Damn you, now I’ve got to go find an emulator and see how bad the C64 days were all over again.

I’ve only been on the web since the mid-late 90s, but it has changed so much for the worse, perhaps not in usefulness, but in… Idealsim? I remember reading the hacker manifesto and it moving me. That crappy little text inspired so much in me. I just hope that in todays overly commercial, algorithmically driven, ML curated world, there is room for life changing chance encounters.

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