Can someone tell me why we (US) don't have a vaccine passport yet?
A large number of Americans don't want to live in a police state.
Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
221–230 of 364 posts
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#222We’ll still probably need periodic booster shots to deal with variants as they crop up. Still, very encouraging news if it holds up in practice.
Could someone elaborate why this particular comment is being downvoted? Or I guess in other words, is there something unique about the mRNA vaccines that make it unnecessary to require "booster shots" (if "booster shots" equate to yearly shots we are used to with the flu variants)? (I legitimately don't know and I am curious. I see the article does reference protection against a variant during a study, but it's uncle…
Comment goes against the religion of antivaxxerism and it makes them angry
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's time for the naturally immune to be treated the same as those who've been vaccinated. There is absolutely zero scientific evidence to the contrary, and plenty of evidence to support it.
Vaccination is more comprehensive than natural immunity though. We've already see that the BNT vaccine offers a higher degree of protection against variants than natural immunity, or indeed other vaccines. Reinfection studies from a few months ago demonstrated that natural immunity is roughly 50% effective for people aged 65 or over. And that's the age group most likely to experience negative outcomes from covid-19,…
> Vaccination is more comprehensive than natural immunity though. We've already see that the BNT vaccine offers a higher degree of protection against variants than natural immunity, or indeed other vaccines.
I have seen no evidence for either of these claims, other than assertions. If you have some, please provide citations.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are many many people who have confirmed positive COVID tests. At least excuse those. Yes, but don't just take their word for it. Confirmed clinical test should be the bar. I fear if the "you don't need a vaccine if you've had it" narrative gains traction, even if it is undeniably true, it's going to result in the anti-vaxxers lying about having already had the virus, to manufacture another excuse for themselv…
It's not your business to police this and that's not how it works in the United States. It is not anyone's business to demand a confirmed clinical test. Florida and other states have been open for a long time now and their covid numbers are declining same as wherever there are attempts at more mandates. What use is a confirmed clinical test there? We are not a collective. We do not have these types of arbiters who wi…
Every system has some number of malicious actors. You should trust, but you must also verify. If a system designer assumes no bad actors exist, the system will be quickly exploited, which is why voluntary mask mandates and distancing rules didn't work. We have locks on doors, passwords for computers, seat belts in cars, and rules against drunk driving, precisely because of a small number of dishonest and reckless people.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not novel, this technology has been trialed and used for a decade, 3 years in vaccines. We do already have long-term data. You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. The vaccines are safe. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/
> The vaccines are safe. This is true by medicinal standards, but it's also a sleight-of-hand. The AstraZeneca vaccine had a rare side-effect that was right on track to kill more young women in Europe than the virus itself. That's why it was banned. By that standard, I could argue the viral infection is also safe - for young women at least.
That was caught and the shots stopped. Millions of people have had the other vaccines with no similar bad news. If there was any kind of wide-spread problem, it would have been loudly seen by now and those vaccines would have also been pulled. There has not been.
The vaccines (being administered now) are safe.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is incredibly misleading. I used to be a close follower of the pharma industry, and you're making it seem like FDA trials happen on molecules and formulations somewhat related to the proposed formulation and then are, like, transitively approved on that hand-wavey basis. This is totally wrong. For reasons that should be obvious to any engineer that's worked on any kind of even moderately complex system, the mole…
Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. But there are many parts of this vaccine that is shared with previous ones and the mechanics have been tested thoroughly. The science is the same. There's just no credible…
> Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen.
There are lots of things we do see and we should worry about. The problem is that we can't tell right away if it's just noise, if it's a potentially rare side-effect. Then you have the problems like Myocarditis, which are clearly caused by the vaccine, which we hand-wave away with speculative "the benefits still outweigh the risk" scenarios:
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Scree...
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not novel, this technology has been trialed and used for a decade, 3 years in vaccines. We do already have long-term data. You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. The vaccines are safe. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/
> The vaccines are safe. This is true by medicinal standards, but it's also a sleight-of-hand. The AstraZeneca vaccine had a rare side-effect that was right on track to kill more young women in Europe than the virus itself. That's why it was banned. By that standard, I could argue the viral infection is also safe - for young women at least.
Just to clarify - that is false. It is generally advisable to get Moderna/Pfizer if they're available and you're a young woman but the chance of mortal thrombosis is around 5 per one million. The EU recommends getting AZ over not receiving a vaccine if that is the only option available to you[1] - though at this point there should be a sufficient supply of alternatives.
1. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazene...
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no basis to believe at this point that we'll need "booster shots" of any kind with COVID vaccination, and in fact the opposite seems to be the case, so this comment is being downvoted for spreading misinformation (amusingly, this specific comment will probably be disliked by both vaccination proponents and disease proponents :) The reason we won't need yearly vaccinations as with the flu shots isn't a propert…
How do I reconcile this with the existence of, say, Moderna booster? https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... (Genuine question.)
Hedging bets - It's better to have a booster ready and approved and not need it than need one and not have it.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#229So will natural infection. Resistance to SARS-CoV1 has lasted more than a decade. Coronaviruses mutates far less dramatically than influenza does.
SARS-CoV1 didn't have a pool of 8 billion people to mutate in. It'll get less deadly as time goes by giving fuel to the 'it's just a flu' crowd, killing millions in the meantime and potentially mutating beyond the scope of currently attained immunity, god forbid.
There it’s just a flu crowd are the same people who call every little sniffle they get “the flu“. I’ve had the flu and I was out of it. I couldn’t even make it to the bathroom on my own.
Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Traditional vaccines have also been "unreasonably effective". I'm all for mRNA going forward (I got pfizer myself) but lets not downplay just how effective the "old" tech has been against covid. It's really quite amazing how well we've been able to target it. Now if only we could get more people to accept that the vaccines are safe...
> Traditional vaccines have also been "unreasonably effective" AFAIK not really. I know just about Sinovac and that was significantly worse efficacy than other vaccines. Note that adonovirusvector based vaccines like AstraZeneca one are not 'traditional vaccines' but also rather new tech.
That’s why I put old in quotes. mRNA is also nothing new, just new at this scale. People are just acting like it’s something that was just invented over the last year.